folding KK preflop 50NL

[rianb]

Ok so maybe i'm being a little results oriented but it seems players at this level won't get it all in pre with less than AA, and i've been stacked 3 times my last 3 sessions with KK>AA. Here's an example that just happened:

eff stacks $55, i raise KK in the HJ, CO repots it. I've played with this guy a little the last couple of days and he's been 3 betting me pre more than most, don't think he gives me much respect so I'm not too worried about him. SB repots to about $25. I really want to fold but can't because I'm a station and get stacked by AA.

I really don't think many players at this level get it in with less than AA but I can't seem to lay down KK pre, is this a huge leak?

[doppelganger]

I would lay it down in the scenario you describe. I will VERY rarely lay it down HU though. I'd need a good read that he's a supernit PF.

[Gospy]

I'm not folding KK in that scenario or most other scenarios.

[rianb]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding KK in that scenario or most other scenarios.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's pretty much my thinking but i've been questioning it more and more lately, maybe it's results oriented??

I don't know though, does your avg 50nl player get it in with worse there? because I've been getting burned every time

[PinkMartini]

Get it in nearly 100%. I've seen donks at those stakes stack off with 99 - AA, AJs, AQos

[Rounder101]

NEVER fold KK PF. There are MINIMUM cases u may lay it down, but in this scenario ur describing absolutely call all the time.
SBs range is not AA, his range is AA,KK,QQ, AK, maybe even JJ or TT, not to mention possible bluffs.

[rianb]

[ QUOTE ]
NEVER fold KK PF. There are MINIMUM cases u may lay it down, but in this scenario ur describing absolutely call all the time.
SBs range is not AA, his range is AA,KK,QQ, AK, maybe even JJ or TT, not to mention possible bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

do people really bluff squeeze here at this limit? interesting i guess i just have a small sample and am catching the worst of it. I would've also thought AK might lay down to this action so far out of the blinds...

[five4suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding KK in that scenario or most other scenarios.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's pretty much my thinking but i've been questioning it more and more lately, maybe it's results oriented??

I don't know though, does your avg 50nl player get it in with worse there? because I've been getting burned every time

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they do. It's ok to question it though, because you realize you might be results-oriented (which you are). Bad run, that's all.

Also, iirc the supernits min-raise or -reraise rather than pot-raise when they have the nuts.

[neil705]

any time u have a chance to push kk pre flop take it if he shows AA suck it in and rebuy

[rianb]

ok, sounds good. thanks for the help, all. feeling better about it all =)

[rianb]

one more quick question; is it closer in the original situation with QQ?

[rianb]

QQ is close and JJ to *has* to be a fold, right??

[Kasane]

[ QUOTE ]
one more quick question; is it closer in the original situation with QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but not just because of the hand value. Think about it.

[rianb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
one more quick question; is it closer in the original situation with QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but not just because of the hand value. Think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

well what i was thinking when i posted that and what i think you're saying is that we're behind a bigger part of your range...??

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding KK in that scenario or most other scenarios.

[/ QUOTE ]

[SkeetyMcdoogle]

I laid down KK one time, when a nit reraised me and another nit pushed. They showed down AK and QQ, so I've never folded again. I get stacked by AA sometimes but I'm pretty sure its -EV at these levels to fold it.

[orange]

never

[rianb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
one more quick question; is it closer in the original situation with QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but not just because of the hand value. Think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

well what i was thinking when i posted that and what i think you're saying is that we're behind a bigger part of your range...??

[/ QUOTE ]

was just reading over this and it won't let me edit..."your" should read "villains"...

[corsakh]

QQ is an easy fold. Folding KK is burning money.

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding KK in that scenario or most other scenarios.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
never

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get it in nearly 100%. I've seen donks at those stakes stack off with 99 - AA, AJs, AQos

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NEVER fold KK PF. There are MINIMUM cases u may lay it down, but in this scenario ur describing absolutely call all the time.
SBs range is not AA, his range is AA,KK,QQ, AK, maybe even JJ or TT, not to mention possible bluffs.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK! OK! I GIVE! SHEESH! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ICMoney]

You will not go wrong if you never fold KK pf for 100bb.

[ama0330]

It never ceases to amaze me what I see every time I get ai with KK preflop. DONT FOLD.

[cooker3]

The only time to fold kings pf is when some women with nice breasts and Phil Hellmuth get all in, high five each other and start dancing around the table while telling everyone they have Aces.
Otherwise push.

[deadmanspoker]

[ QUOTE ]
There are MINIMUM cases u may lay it down

[/ QUOTE ]

What cases would you consider laying it down?
I think that would help out the OP and others interested in this topic.

I shove almost always if im 100BB, i think the only time i will fold is,

If i have been raised, then reraised by 2 villans
OR
The villan is SUPER SUPER TIGHT.

[YanP]

My grunch was, and always will be, never fold KK for 100B, especially online.

[ QUOTE ]
The only time to fold kings pf is when some women with nice breasts and Phil Hellmuth get all in, high five each other and start dancing around the table while telling everyone they have Aces.


[/ QUOTE ]
that was funny,

did the post need another person saying never fold KK, i feel it did

[Snozynoze]

Fold KK faceup (if it's online it's harder to do but possible) and laugh.
AA too.

No no no...this is serious. get it in there.

And if they have AA, just suckout. It's as easy as that.