QQ called 3 bet pre, now facing min raise on flop

[Labarde]

No reads on opponent

Looking for the best line here, I feel like I'm beat.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($54.13)
SB ($34.98)
BB ($25)
Hero ($26.49)
MP ($41.76)
CO ($20.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($6.35) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $8</font>.
Hero?

[xeanatic]

why not check call flop and reevaluate on the turn?

[Labarde]

[ QUOTE ]
why not check call flop and reevaluate on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I figure unless I hit a queen on the turn my thoughts about his hand will be very similar. I donk bet to try and get him to define his hand more. I think he folds AK here and raises me when I'm beat.

[foal]

Why not 4-bet pre?

[TheRenaissance]

I think the flop donk is bad. If I am villain I'd raise you with any two. It is very transparent what you are trying to do - i.e. finding out where you are.

[The Mad Potter]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not 4-bet pre?

[/ QUOTE ]

How bout we try and play post flop.....

4-betting NL 25 folds out every holding that we beat, and we are only getting called/5-bet by the top 3% of villains range.

AA/KK/AK

[The Mad Potter]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop donk is bad. If I am villain I'd raise you with any two. It is very transparent what you are trying to do - i.e. finding out where you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[jackrich00]

You have an overpair in a re-raised pot, i push here. I also would 4 bet PF. If he pushes all in PF you have a chance to fold but not on this flop i dont think. I def would not just call, thats just giving him a chance to hit.

[citizenwind]

i'd call and crai any non-AK turn.

[Labarde]

[ QUOTE ]
You have an overpair in a re-raised pot, i push here. I also would 4 bet PF. If he pushes all in PF you have a chance to fold but not on this flop i dont think. I def would not just call, thats just giving him a chance to hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd call and crai any non-AK turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of range would you put villain on here and what do you think I can beat?

[Quester]

[ QUOTE ]
How bout we try and play post flop.....

4-betting NL 25 folds out every holding that we beat, and we are only getting called/5-bet by the top 3% of villains range.

AA/KK/AK

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an unknown, this is not true. 25NL isn't a rock garden, especially against unknowns.

I'd only lead this flop if I was willing to commit. It doesn't sound like you are.

I'm happy shoving over the minraise; it is very likely that you are ahead.

As played, you'll probably want to get it in against any non-A or non-K turn.

[citizenwind]

as played, donking into that flop will get you raised by any two. your bet looks like 88-TT or maybe AJ timidly firing out. i think you've inadvertently committed yourself here because of the increased possibility of getting bluffed.

you c/r the turn for the same reason you should have c/r'd the continuation bet on the flop: you're not getting value from being called by worse, you're getting value from trapping the money being bet by worse.

I think b/3b on the flop is fine too, but I think crai on the turn maximizes if the guy really is an aggro monkey, though it sucks when an A or K hits.

[Loramov]

We beat JJ, AQ, AK. The rest of his range is read dependant but if you are going to fold QQ on a flop like this you might as well fold it preflop unless you are only playing it for set value?!? Personaly i would raise the donk-bet with pretty much any 2. Call here and reevaluate on turn fold to any A or K on turn / river. I will c/c down from there. Min-raise on flop is often a bluff or somebody trying to see where he stands.

I also 4-bet preflop most of the times and fold to a shove when you flat call there your hand is very underrepresented so you can hardly fold postflop most pockets and suited connectors are still in your range here probably.

Edit: the way you played it preflop i also check-raise the flop to get c-bets from AQ/AK and smaller pockets.

[Rafpig]

IMO you either have to shove here or call and crai a blank turn. You can´t fold an overpair here IMO. Villain range is not as tight as you think. Let´s say you shove the flop (my favourite action, since JJ might be scared to continue after the turn card) and he calls only with TT+, still you have 33% equity with 2 to 1 odds. Add to this some FE and also the possibility that he calls with something else (who knows), then shoving is clearly correct. Folding here is a clear mistake IMO. BTW I would have preferred to 4bet pre-flop. I totally disagree with the statement that in NL-25 this will fold the hands we beat.