How far to play AA?

[alphabet_]

I want to ask you, guys, a question, how you deal the situation when you have overpair, and to share some my thoughts about the subject.

The question is - how far to play AA/KK (overpairs)?

This is a sample hand.

You are UTG at full 6-max table with 100bb stack and pocket KK, everyone at the table has the same stack size.

Preflop: You raise UTG with KK to 4bb - and get 2 callers - a real, strong TAG from MP (18/12/2, calling pfr with 8%) and a wild crazy maniac from button (smth like 80/0/5, calling pfr with 30%). Everoyne else folded.

Flop: J85 rainbow, pot is 13 bb - giving you overpair. You bet 11 bb and get called by TAG (villain), maniac folded.

Turn: J852 rainbow, pot is 35 bb, you and villain have both 85 bb left. You bet 22, villain calls.

River: J8523, pot is 80 bb, you both have 60 bb left. You check, villain goes AI for 60 bb, you have to call 60 bb to win 140 pot - this is 2.2:1 pot odds, so you call.

Result: you give out whole stack to villain with pocket 88.

The question is - assuming board with no draws - how far you shold play your overpair? I think, the answer is - in preflop raise size . You raise to 4bb? So you give implied odds for any pair (lower yours KK) to flop a set (1/8 times). If you play your overpair/top pair for more, then 4*8 = 32 bb - you loosing to bottom pair flopping a set, in the long run.

But! How to play similar hands? You can check the turn and get 1/2 PSB to 15 bb - so you will have to cal 15 bb to stay in pot of 50 bb - it is 1:3 pot odds. And on the river - are you going to make a blocking bet of 15 bb? Or check-call a 15-20 bb bet? So you can invest totally ~50. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Do you have any posts/considerations on this topic? Will be very thankful to hear your oppinion.

[mr_npiv]

I wouldn't check the river here. I would lead out. If he is stealing, you are setting yourself up by firing twice, and then suddenly stopping.

Considering your oop, and as you said the villain is pretty solid, I might even check the turn. There are no real draws out there, and he called, with the maniac still to come, indicating considerable strength.

I think he would reraise with AJ, so trips seems to be the most likely option on this board.

Checking the turn, might relinquish control of the action to the villain, but could also serve to keep the pot small. Which is kinda what you want here.

I'd probably call him down, but stop indicating strength by firing again, to try keep the pot smaller.

[TheRenaissance]

Check raise turn ai - unless villain is a total nit postflop.
Because:
Many players peel this flop with medium pairs, and when you check the turn they feel the need to protect against AK sucking out.

However, if you know he will ONLY call the flop with a set, then your plan for the hand should be pretty straightforward.

[Craggoo]

I think we get more value out of betting the flop and turn and check-calling the river than we do by betting the whole way through. We aren't checking the river to try and get to a cheap showdown (most of the time) but to induce a bluff if villain had some sort of busted draw. If the person is somewhat aggressive, i think teh times we get value by inducing a bluff outweigh the times we get stacked by 2 pair/set, but thats just my opinion.

[Ranma4703]

Also, you protect by raising AKo and TT and 33, and you won't go broke with them, so he loses money just playing for set value.