JJ hand against a relative unknown who *seems* to be tight?

[PleasureGuy69]

Only 15 hands on the guy and at that point, he was 18/0.

I don't know if I should have called that flop because it bloats the pot and makes it hard for me to play OOP. His turn weak was so weak that I didn't know what to do.

What's the play here?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $50.35
Hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $104.85
MP: $23.85
CO: $51.15
BTN: $30.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Jc.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Jh.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, MP folds, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $5.50</font>, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($12.50) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Ts.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Td.gif http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/2h.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $10.00</font>, Hero calls $10.00

Turn: ($32.50) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/7c.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $10.00</font>, Hero calls $10.00

River: ($52.50) http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/cards/color/Kh.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $10.00</font>, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $10.00 returned to CO

Pot Size: $52.50 ($2.60 Rake)

[toddxlogan]

Uh. Where to begin... Ok:

Preflop: Jacks are a horrid bitch to play, especially OOP, when you are not the aggressor PF. I 4-bet this to like 14, and fold to a shove. If he calls the 4-bet, I c-bet halfpot and am DONE after that. Leak? Maybe. Dunno.

Flop: As played, you have no choice but to call.

Turn: Decision time. If you are calling here, you MUST call river. I think its awful to call this turn and fold to a like 1/10pot riverbet.

Overall kind of a gross spot. Hands like these remind me why I 4-bet J's a lot PF, despite the fact that it hurts a lot to be forced to fold to a shove, and you feel pretty weird if he flat calls you.

[Rounder101]

Plz dont fold 6-1 odds on the river, you can fold PF, u can fold flop, turn, but the river!!??
Not sure what u beat other than a bluff or maybe 9s, TT, but if u have called all the way this is the easiest of all the other calls.

[MusashiStyle]

[ QUOTE ]
PF. I 4-bet this to like 14, and fold to a shove.


[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but it is still very hard to fold to that shove

[bored]

I can fold the flop here. This crap tiny raise from tight/bad players is so often KK+.

[Pussy Galore]

i'll let other's comment on the other streets but when it comes 2 the river please call 4 another dime.your getting 6 to 1

[yapee]

I think you can also call his minraise here for set value only, but the you should fold on a flop with no jack.

[Hail Eris]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Jacks are a horrid bitch to play, especially OOP, when you are not the aggressor PF. I 4-bet this to like 14, and fold to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're turning JJ into 22 doing this.

[Ricky_Bobby]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Jacks are a horrid bitch to play, especially OOP, when you are not the aggressor PF. I 4-bet this to like 14, and fold to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're turning JJ into 22 doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly, JJ still has some value when flat called, 22 does not.

Limp raising the CO? Does anybody limp RR with only the button left with AA/KK? Looks a lot more like AK/TT and lower to me.

JJ is much better against that range than 22.

[Hail Eris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Jacks are a horrid bitch to play, especially OOP, when you are not the aggressor PF. I 4-bet this to like 14, and fold to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're turning JJ into 22 doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly, JJ still has some value when flat called, 22 does not.

Limp raising the CO? Does anybody limp RR with only the button left with AA/KK? Looks a lot more like AK/TT and lower to me.

JJ is much better against that range than 22.

[/ QUOTE ]

What worse hands are calling a 4bet here?

Obviously his range for doing this is wider than AA/KK, but he's only calling a 4bet with the top end that has JJ crushed.

I think 4betting JJ/QQ is terrible like 90% of the time except against regs and lags that you have 4betting history with, or complete droolers.

[Jamougha]

This would have been fine if you had called the river getting 6:1.

You could also put him on air and 4-bet/call shove. 4-betting and folding to a shove is gross.

[ryang]

lol

[C4LL4W4Y]

make the initial raise ~$4.50, then 4bet/call. if he plays QQ-AA like this god bless his sorry ass.

[Ricky_Bobby]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Jacks are a horrid bitch to play, especially OOP, when you are not the aggressor PF. I 4-bet this to like 14, and fold to a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're turning JJ into 22 doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly, JJ still has some value when flat called, 22 does not.

Limp raising the CO? Does anybody limp RR with only the button left with AA/KK? Looks a lot more like AK/TT and lower to me.

JJ is much better against that range than 22.

[/ QUOTE ]

What worse hands are calling a 4bet here?

Obviously his range for doing this is wider than AA/KK, but he's only calling a 4bet with the top end that has JJ crushed.

I think 4betting JJ/QQ is terrible like 90% of the time except against regs and lags that you have 4betting history with, or complete droolers.

[/ QUOTE ]

If 4 betting QQ is terrible then isn't 4 betting in general terrible?

I'm not necessarily advocating 4 betting I simply disagree with your assertion that 4 betting is reducing JJ's value to that of 22. Isn't calling and folding if we don't hit a set turning JJ in to 22 as well?

[Rafpig]

I usually raise 4BB +1 after each limper and +1 if I´m OOP, that makes 4.50 pre-flop. The CO re-raise is really strange, is he donk enough to limp from the CO after 1 limper with KK+? You should seriously consider putting a 4-bet pre (and even calling a shove, I guess). But the way you played is fine, IMO. But the river play is horrible, you have to call him and make a note right after that.

[The Brikk]

in this situation a would of called the river. your call on the turn makes no sens if you fold to the river. if he hit the king on the river well good for him but you have to call on a 5/1 pot. i also think you played it weak, i would of raise him on the flop to slow him down later in the hand and to see were i was.