NL50 - A third heart = fold??

[swarlley]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

Hero (SB): $49.20
BB: $76.45
UTG: $56.80
MP: $49.50
CO: $48.00
BTN: $40.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, CO folds, BTN calls $0.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.00</font>, BB calls $1.50, MP calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

Flop: ($8) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $5.00</font>, MP calls $5.00, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $15.00</font>, BB calls $10.00, MP calls $10.00

Turn: ($53) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="red">MP bets all-in for $32.50</font>, Hero ???

Pot Size: $117.40 ($3 Rake)

If he have a flush here I don´t get the outs to draw to a full house, but can a unknown villain do this with a worse ace? Fold or call??

I think that i got myself in a though spot by not raising enough on the flop, I should raised more on the flop and if MP goes all-in in on the flop I´m ahead of all hands except AK and 44, and if he goes all-in on the turn can I get the odds to draw to a full-house if he hit a flush.

So as played fold or call?
And do you agree with my thoughts about how I should played the hand, and if not why?

[skibbel]

Raise flop 25$.

[mr.spam]

Read dependant, but with two villains I don't think you're ahead. There's two of them, so 1 of them will probably have a flushdraw (they can't have an ace both) and if not, one had an ace, and the other had 44. Lay it down I'ld say, unless villain is really bad and thinks A2 is the nutz. Definitly raise flop more yeah, makes the hand play itself.

[Peter Harris]

PF you should be raising more, as you'll be playing OOP. I make it 3-3.5.

The flop check is pretty stupid imo, you gave us no reads and can't be sure someone will bet, and if it were a late position player who did you're in the worst possible spot to c/r. Bet and hope for a weaker A or badly played FD to raise so you can 3b.

Once you (imo badly) decide to c/r the raise has to be a lot more.

As played, if you think the guy behind will call too then you can call all in there. But, as played, it's likely best to fold.

Anyway PF and flop were both pretty bad so you got in a whole heap of trouble on the turn.

[Yaboy]

I would fold, but a call wouldn't be that bad. You have 10 outs to improve (3.6:1), and your getting about 4:1 on your money. However, some of your outs might be counterfeit, so a fold is probably the best move. As far as the hand was played, I would have done things a lot differently.

First, I think the preflop raise was two small. A raise of $3.50-$4.00 would of been better (punish those limpers /images/graemlins/wink.gif).

Secondly, as you noted your flop raise too was weak. A pot-sized raised would have been much better ($36?). Charge those folks on the draw full price!

[shark_fishin]

with a 4way pot i dont mind a c/r here to get a lot of money in while your ahead but you need a bigger flop raise, a pot sized raise would be $28, so anywhere in between $23-28. then your priced in on the turn.
as played, i would probably fold, it looks like a flush the way hes called twice.

[swarlley]

[ QUOTE ]
PF you should be raising more, as you'll be playing OOP. I make it 3-3.5.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the 3-4xBB+ 1BB per limper formula states that i should raise to about 2.5-3$, of course I only raised 2$ in this case which is wrong. But should I ad onto this betsize if I´m out of position to compensate if I chose tho play the hand? And this is to narrow down the field and/or show more strength when out of position?

[Peter Harris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF you should be raising more, as you'll be playing OOP. I make it 3-3.5.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the 3-4xBB+ 1BB per limper formula states that i should raise to about 2.5-3$, of course I only raised 2$ in this case which is wrong. But should I ad onto this betsize if I´m out of position to compensate if I chose tho play the hand? And this is to narrow down the field and/or show more strength when out of position?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read NLTAP you'll realise formulae are not the best way to play. You want to raise more because you will be able to define hands better. You can choose between a pot building raise (minraising or to $2) or hand defining ($3.5+) which means you can get a better read on what your opponent may be playing - which is much more important OOP.

I don't hold to formulae. Different situations call for different betsizes. Here i raise $3 to $3.5 as a matter of course, especially with the openlimp-overlimp before me.

[Kasane]

pf is really important. Your raise is small enough to just about get a call every time. It's what these limpers are limping for: they want to see a flop cheap. If they raise, they're afraid of getting re-raised off their holding.

Adding a bb or two for being out of position is a good idea, whether you have a good hand or bad. If they're going to call you, you want them to pay for the privilege of position. This will even out the suckouts and whatnot over the long haul that call you here and cost you a bit by charging them now.

I disagree with the above about a pot-sweetener. NLTAP was referring more to a live game and probably would never recommend a pot-sweetener from the blinds. Not our micro, multi-table game. And it never would recommmend a pot sweetening bet with AQ. AQ makes good top pair hands that win modest pots. Pot sweeteners are for Axs, pps and similar that make big hands on the flop that can stand big pots or get out of the way easily.

[Speedlimits]

raise more preflop
lead flop

[Peter Harris]

Good reply Kasane but please don't think i was advocating pot sweetener raises at uNL, i was just outlining the theory from the book /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[maciczka]

firstly You are out of postion so raising only 4xBB when we have limpers is a mistake, trust me IT's a HUUGE mistake, the mistake cost You information of hand range, coz now it's more a pot sweetener then a raise keeping weak hands fold.

What have You gain by that raise? Look! All called..

Raise it to 7-8BB PF. if You dont want to play this way - fold it here.

Flop. Hmm that's not a common mistake to 3bet him, as many would raise exactly the same. But next time just 5bet him fe and his odds for a flush draw, on this drawy board would be bad. Remember - drawy board, facing aggresion when You are ahead? RAISE IT MORE than on absolutely-no-draws-included-board.