25NL video by ssnler

[Sirasoni]

Hi guys,

I made this video because I was pretty bored. In all honesty it's probably not that good because I just found myself in a lot of standard situations against hugeee calling stations, whereas I wanted to get into 3betting wars vs the tags at this limit and stuff like that. I tried explaining some more non-concrete concepts but I wasn't able to show examples of it throughout the video =[. Though you still might be able to take a few things away from this video, especially if you're probably at or around 10NL.

So if there's a lot of interest in a video where I intentionally sit myself at some nit-infested table, then I could make one probably even tonight, but until then I hope some of you can learn a thing or two from my vid /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Additionally, I'm not even that familiar with the level of play you guys as a majority possess, so if these spots are all no-brainers then sorry /images/graemlins/smile.gif. And sorry for the coughing/clearing throat I know that can get annoying, but I'm kinda new to this whole thing so give me a break :P

Enjoy!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5lrzq7

[Student Caine]

Thanks for taking the time to make a video...dl'ing it now.

[Sirasoni]

bump, hoping more people can see this, i enjoy making the vids but they're also quite time consuming, and i'd definitely appreciate some feedback :P

[Ikaika]

Right on man, thanks a lot for taking the time to make this for our viewing pleasure. Will dl and report back.

[SlimboKarvell]

I will download and get you some feedback! I would be interested in a nitty table video /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SlimboKarvell]

First of all I want to thank you for the movie! Is really helpfull to see a better player play some microstakes! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nice table skin btw /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Some questions:

How do you decide when to steal the blinds or not? You're stealing with hands like T8, Q8. Does the hand matter? Or just the opponents? Did you took into account earlier steal attemps (like: do not steal 3 times in a row?

Do you play suited aces from every position (saw you open with A7s UTG)? Do you think this is a good play on very fishy sites where you get called by every A (when the ace flops, you have a kicker problem)?

How do you put fold to 3bet in your HUD? Do you use Poker Ace?

Second barrel on the turn when an A comes: is this a standart play against a tight player? Do you use it more in blind battle or can you use it a raised/re-raised pot (the villain is then more likely to have the A)?

I would like to see another movie from you, especially on how to play against the TAG players. Liked your comments, the only thing I could critizise is the missing HUD!

[Sirasoni]

Thanks for the comments Slimbo /images/graemlins/smile.gif

While the players were generally very loose, I also felt that they would still give up their blind, and even if they called, I'm usually in position and can decide how I want to continue in the hand. I didn't do much c-betting in the video, because the flops were usually drawy and multiway, but that's okay too. However, in regards to that one session alone, stealing was not only profitable (due to people not playing back at me) but was also used for image reasons (though to what extent I'm not sure).

In any case, the players didn't seem to really play back from the blinds much in the video, so of course it is also really player dependent (the profitability of your steals directly correlates with the calling/playback frequency of the blind players).

I would open some hands loosely earlier because the table was soft and wasn't playing back as often. In any case, what I wanted to do was establish a loose image, but I don't think anyone was really paying attention anyway. I should've stated that I was intentionally deciding to play very loose preflop (though I'm sure I did mention it a bit), and I don't really advocate every UNLer to open their range drastically to the extent where you're raising low Ace suited hands in EP (a play I almost never do at 200nl, btw). I think overall I also wanted to get into marginal situations with weak hands like that just so I can show you guys some interesting, tough spots, but I didn't really get that many.

I use Realtime HUD which you can find in the Software forum, by mikechops. It's a very very good HUD that I prefer over PokerAce, and not to mention, it's free.

Regarding double barreling, it's player dependent and shouldn't be used ALL the time of course, but one thing that should be learned is good spots to fire double barrels. Aces are great scare cards because they are easily within your range (if your opponent is going to be trying to assign you a range in the first place), and people just generally don't like continuing with mediocre hands once that scare card turns. Blind vs Blind and everything else are largely player-dependent, but in any case it applies moreso to tags because they are more willing to lay down weak hands when I give them a reason to.

I'll probably make a dry-table video tomorrow during the daytime, and hopefully get into those tough spots I mentioned earlier. I'll see what I can do as far as getting my HUD to appear, because it's worked for someone else in SSNL but I really don't see what I can do to get it to show.

[Frosteater]

Thanks, pretty awesome video.
In fact I love stuff that is more "standard". Hard decisions are always nice to watch, but I suppose a lot of us have some very minor, but frequent flaws we don't even recognize, and vids by more experienced players are a great opportunity to compare styles in standard situations and spot the minor leaks.

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding double barreling, it's player dependent and shouldn't be used ALL the time of course, but one thing that should be learned is good spots to fire double barrels. Aces are great scare cards because they are easily within your range (if your opponent is going to be trying to assign you a range in the first place), and people just generally don't like continuing with mediocre hands once that scare card turns.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is interesting though, I'd actually hesitate to double barrel in the hand you did it (probably one of these minor leaks). Reason is I'd usually put your opponent on the flush draw, so when the draw doesn't complete but an ace hits, I'm actually afraid the ace helped him more than me, since ace-high flush draws seem to be way more common then lesser ones. Is that just a basic mistake on my part or is double barreling the ace in these situations profitable none the less?

[checktheriver]

Thanks for the vid that's always interesting to watch a good player.

I have a question regarding when you double barrel that J6o hand in BvB (~14:30) : given that you have second pair doesn't it turn your hand into a bluff ? I'd like to hear the reasons for these kind of plays, I am probably too passive on turn and river and I'm trying to change that.

Also it would be very nice to have a video of you exploiting the tag regulars.

[spigge]

I would very much like to see video where you play against table of multitabling <20 vp$ip players /images/graemlins/smile.gif or something like that

[Sirasoni]

Thanks for the comments, I sorta knew that hand would get some discussion.

First off, as with all things in poker, you can't really make a general blanket statement such as "always double barrel an ace turn". I hope I didn't come out that way :P Rather my intention was to show when it would be a decent, logical opportunity to double barrel. It all comes down to your opponent's ranges and tendencies as discussed in the video. Of course, we'll be playing with a lot of unknowns most of the time so we won't have that information, so that's why I generally just prefer double barreling those sorts of spots, I just feel like overall they are pretty +EV because that's essentially the best card you'll ever want to 2nd barrel with on a very general basis.

I might've had a misconception about BvB play in 25nl though. Higher up, it becomes more loose and aggressive and tricky. Some villains like calling down 2 barrels with a weak pair because they think I'm on a bluff (well I usually am). Therefore I felt flopping top kicker in that situation gave me a very good hand. However, if BvB in general is played differently at these stakes, I can see why it might be confusing. So in that case it wasn't really much of a 2nd barrel (I mentioned it only to show that I most likely would 2nd barrel if I had a hand such as K7 with mid pair, because I think I might be able to fold him off a weak jack or 88 or something). Weaker flush draws and weaker pairs are still within his range, and those are the hands I want to be extracting against, if he had AdXd that would be very unfortunate, but there's not much I can do about that because an argument can be made that he could just as easily have a higher jack and whatnot.

I hope that clears some stuff up, it's 6 AM and I'm gonna go to sleep, I'll definitely make another video tomorrow (or this) afternoon, and hopefully it will be muchhh better and clearer. And thanks to nielso from SSNL I found out how to get my HUD stats captured as well, so I'll definitely have that displaying tomorrow.

[SlimboKarvell]

Blind stealing is very profitable at NL25 and it works more than one might think. I just always want "some" kind of a hand, I would not steal with T8. I think sometimes I play to much my own hand, rather than the players.

I'll check Realtime HUD, never heard of it, might be a good tip /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regarding double barreling, I did not understand you that one should always use the A as a scare card and bet. But I think the concept is an important one that can get you some small pots here and there. I recently started to realize it and used it on some occasions, so I'm glad I saw an example of it in your video to illustrate. I think it is a concept that lots of micro stakes player do not take full advantage of. But always be sure to pick your spots.

And I agree with the other poster, I watch the movies because I want to see the standart playing style.

I'm looking forward to your next movie! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rothko]

sira, recognize your voice. did you make an mtt vid before?

also, where in socal?

thanks for the vid. more plz.

[Tuff Enuff]

Thanks for taking the time to make the video. You ran well and played topnotch. Commentary was a plus for me, talking thru your thought process. Please make another vid as I am planning to make the jump to NL25 in the near future.

Thanks Again

[fozzy71]

Downloading now - SLOWLY.

Try and use Mediafire.com or MegaUpload.com next time. /images/graemlins/wink.gif I usually get much faster speeds from those sites, than I did from your download link.

Looking forward to watching it.......... when it finally downloads. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[RichAM]

If you just want to watch the video and not download it. Open up Windows Media Player, Go to File -> Open URL and enter thsi URL: [http://fs06n3.sendspace.com/dl/7c3e977b5b450521e6c0b1eab36075d3/46d9f9e677e39675/5lrzq7/sirasoni25nldemo.wmv]

without the []
Hope that helps.

[fozzy71]

Thx, I know. I would rather be able to watch it at my convenience. It is only going at about 100 kB/s (my max is ~1,000 kB/s). I usually get more like 300-700 kB/s when I download other players videos, that are hosted on the other sites I mentioned.

[jk1986]

zSHARE - best uploading site, unlimited speed downloads!

[Sirasoni]

Got the second video up.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WZOCACUS

You'll have to enter the 3 digit code that it shows, then wait 45 seconds afterwards for the download link to be available for you. Hopefully it'll download fast though, but it's 289 megs this time because it's an .avi I think, so it'll still take a long time to download. If anyone wants me to make it a .wmv which will probably cut down the file size by 1/2 I can do that too.

Notes:
- Played 29/28 for the session, which was much looser than I was originally intending. As stated before, I clearly don't advocate opening up your range THAT loose. As I've said in the video somewhere, I think playing with nitty preflop stats is still profitable because there are just so many loose passive players at these stakes, however you definitely need to be learning how to open up your range as you move up and start facing other players who might be making plays light at you.
- Ran around 10ptbb/100 for near a buy in profit, so not bad I think despite all the weak spots.
- Video accidentally longer this time, clocking in at around 50 mins.
- Unfortunately I wasn't able to go in and outplay everyone, which wasn't what I was expecting anyway, but I did want to show more 3b pot situations but players/cards just didn't allow for it that much. Hope you guys still enjoy it though.

[TTStrangler]

Sorry to be a pain in the [censored]. But I downloaded the 2nd video and can only hear the audio, not the video, WMP says I need some kinda codec. I tried installing DivX player, and same results. Anyway, can you covert it to the same format as the first? BTW, thanks for putting these together, I'm very new to all this, only play 2NL at 1 table, so watching you keep up with multiple tables, while giving thoughts and instruction is really cool to watch. Thanks for taking the time to make these!

[fozzy71]

http://www.techsmith.com/codecs/tscc/default.asp


the techsmith codec - then WMP should play it fine.

[TTStrangler]

Very nice, worked perfect, thanks for the tip fozzy.

Scratch that request Sirasoni, I can view it now.

[fozzy71]

Just finished watchin the first video Looking forward to watching the 2nd one. The 2nd downloaded much faster. /images/graemlins/wink.gif ~1 MB/s /images/graemlins/grin.gif Took me about 5 minutes to download the entire 280 MB

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/fozzy71/zoom.jpg

[maciczka]

Firstly, I've downloaded Your first vid yesterday night, today I've watched it. Im playing NL20 so it was quite nice to watch someone better play. I think most of the plays You did I would play the same way (considering the stats You're mentioning from hud). The only diefferent thing is the nut flush vs second nut flush. I would bet straight away all-in. I believe some (let's assume 50%) players at that level will call You EASY with his second best nut flush. It looks like a bluff. I think multilevel thinking is about that at that level. "why did he bet all-in straight away? he was drawing to his J-high flush? or what? I need to call him". dunno if Im right, just my 5cents.

[Sirasoni]

[ QUOTE ]
sira, recognize your voice. did you make an mtt vid before?

also, where in socal?

thanks for the vid. more plz.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, these have been my first vids for 2p2. I live in the suburbs around LA, but I go to school in the OC (Irvine).


maciczka: I definitely think this is a spot where having a pretty good read on your opponent results in a massively huge profit, as opposed to whatever I got. In other words, if I knew he was capable of min-raising with such a powerful hand (top pair good kicker with a draw to the 2nd nut flush), I could've got a lot more in.

(Warning: long "thought process" analysis incoming, a lot of which is already found in the video) Unfortunately at the time I didn't really know how he played. To me, it felt like his minraise was either trying to get value with a made flush (probably a weak one), or most likely trying to protect against the flush (which for obvious reasons is not as effective when it's only a minraise). I figured he would raise much larger with two pair or a very good queen, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I felt that most players on my tables were passive in general, and so he would easily check behind a pair on the turn (as he should) - therefore my small-ish bet was to keep him continuing with that pair. If he made a flush, I really didn't expect him to have a large one, so I bet what I visualized a mediocre flush would call.

Hopefully my thought process makes sense to you - clearly in that particular scenario my analysis was incorrect - however we play with the information we are given at the time (and I didn't have much). Once again: Decide what his range is based on how the hand played out (ex: a minraise might be a weak queen etc. etc.), understand his tendencies (ex: he will check behind most hands on the turn), and then decide what would be the best play based on this info. Had I known he would play KcQx that way, I definitely would have adjusted. If you are correct in that ~50% would've called an all in lightly, then it was a simple matter of me not having been used to the metagame at 25nl - which is just another example of "nothing is ever final, always adjust accordingly".

Having said that, I didn't have much reason to believe he would level himself, and it's not something you should be relying on very often to be honest. I fully understand that sort of thinking and I agree it could work, but often you are probably losing out on some value as well when he may have otherwise called with a weak two pair or something.



I think I should reiterate once again, since I see that people from lower limits are watching the video: My preflop play is VERY peculiar and is most likely not a recommended style of play. Playing VERY abc/standard preflop will most likely win you even more money, so take this as a "well if you insist on playing light, then here are some scenarios" sort of thing /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I just really really don't want to get a pm someday down the line saying "I tried playing super loose like you did in the video and since then I've lost 10 buy ins!" etc. :P

Thanks for the comments everyone, I'm glad you guys have liked it so far.

[jstirrell]

Thank you so much for the videos. I agree that it is very valuable to see not just the thought provoking hands, but every single hand during a session. Sometimes I think my worst leaks are in the plays I assume to be standard when really they aren't at all.

[maciczka]

thx for reply, also can You please upload the second video not to megaupload. It's impossible in 1/2 half of europe to get in there (they cut the limits to like 100people at time). take speedyshare.com instead for example.

[bryan4967]

[ QUOTE ]
I will download and get you some feedback! I would be interested in a nitty table video /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[Sirasoni]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/56rf93 (Video #2 Mirror)

Had to use sendspace again because it's the only other one I found that allows up to 300 megs. Hopefully it won't be too slow for you. Enjoy

[Waingro]

I downloaded the second vid and the audio seems out of sync. You are commenting on hands that happens 2 minutes later or so.

[rothko]

on the first vid, just before the 30min point, i lose video. audio continues flawlessly, but screen freezes. this happening to anyone else?

[rahenyshamrock]

Thanks, the video is a good learning tool for me. Keep them coming. Do I need to invest in the HUD or poker tracker as I havnt used either before?
Thanks again

[clowntable]

Edit:
Download of #2 finished, DL of #1 just started. I'll give feedback once I'm done watching them.

[Upgrade_U]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, the video is a good learning tool for me. Keep them coming. Do I need to invest in the HUD or poker tracker as I havnt used either before?
Thanks again

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are planning to play poker more seriously than 1 or 2 days a week playing the micro stakes for fun then yes, they are initial tools for a learning poker player and they don't cost that much.

[clowntable]

What is on 8/7/07?
Some birthday/anniversary?

[clowntable]

I'm just going to comment as I watch.
#2:
Somewhere between min 5 and 7 you have a pair of Js on a pretty drawy board at the SW table and comment that this is a pretty easy call. Just for straight value I assume. But since I'd put that guy on a straight or 2P mainly I think it's not such an easy call if you plan on folding to the next bet if you don't hit (as you did)

The situation where you 3 bet 43s at the NW table around min 18:
He calls that bet and without further reads I tend to give people a tightish range there. I'd say JJ+ and AK.
AK missed, AA and KK are in pretty good shape on that flop and I'd assume he calls/raises there about equally (depending on how scared he is of flushes).
QQ is in excellent shape ldo and JJ can call a bet and see what you do.
The second Q is a pretty good card to fire again though because if he's really conservative he might fold AA/KK. He'll fold AK/JJ for sure and if he was on the FD he's folding that as well.
Not sure though this would be interesting to discuss. I'd say I lean 2nd barrel but it's very close. He's probably going to put you on AQ, KQ or a set of Ts. But I also like having the discipline to just give up there, I think I might just not have it and cost me a bunch of chips because of my greed :P

[SlimboKarvell]

I watched your 2nd video and I want to thank you! It was very interesting. In fact I relized that in the right circumstances, I have to be more agressive preflop.

I think you message was that against tight players, you can loosen up your preflop 3 bet range, BUT postflop play standart poker. I think I hesitate too often in re-raised pots to contibet, especially if the A comes. Another important thing I noticed is to know when to tighten up when other players are playing back. I see a lot of decent tight players 3 betting preflop and postflop against the table maniac because they think he must be bluffing.

I like you style of play, because if someone with that style is on my table if leave it because I HATE playing against such players. I should have thought about it before and copying some of their play /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[ULcajun]

tried playing like this, worked for a little while, then lost my $50 bankroll lol playing 10NL...pockets 3s hit, but someones pocket ks hit too. yeah that cost me a buyin lol.

[inverted]

nice video (: will post some comments after I watch it again and the 2nd vid

[Sirasoni]

[ QUOTE ]
What is on 8/7/07?
Some birthday/anniversary?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, the day I tilted and lost like 4.5k /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I think eventually we all someday learn our "tilt lesson", and I thought I had it under control but for some reason I just snapped that day. Though it was more like I lost 2.5k to pure tilt, the other 2k was from just running poorly.

[ QUOTE ]
Somewhere between min 5 and 7 you have a pair of Js on a pretty drawy board at the SW table and comment that this is a pretty easy call. Just for straight value I assume. But since I'd put that guy on a straight or 2P mainly I think it's not such an easy call if you plan on folding to the next bet if you don't hit (as you did)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're talking about the J9s hand on AT98 board, yeah the call was definitely for the straight. He minraised, giving me direct odds to call, even if he wasn't gonna pay me off much if I hit.

I think if anything, second barreling the Q could be good, however I really just didn't have a good understanding of the player at that point. Second barreling absolutely requires that you have prior knowledge that the villain is capable of floating (or folding made hands I guess, but it's thin there), which I felt wasn't that feasible at 25nl (since not many players even do it at 200nl). Of course, folding out JJ+ is a huge plus, but then again he would probably still felt KK+ simply because it's an overpair.


Glad you took something away from that Slimbo /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

ULcajun: yep, I definitely just recommend playing tight preflop at around 10nl. I never played 10nl but at 25nl I think my stats were something like 20/12, suffice to say I didn't 3bet light ever back then and I cold called and limped a lot. I still ended up a winner, but I think playing even 18/13 or so might be profitable. Though stats shouldn't dictate your play (you obviously adjust to table conditions), I just feel that trying to play lag all the time is just complete unnecessary. For what it's worth, I only play around 22/18 at 200nl.

Thanks for the comments overall, guys /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Snozynoze]

Just as a follow up question to 3-betting light;

Are the best targets players that raise preflop light, and are willing to fold?

I'm assuming, even someone who raises light that is a calling station, is a bad canidate for 3-betting light.

[gcaash]

i saw the first one and its great .. can u host the second one in the same site as the first ? ty

[maciczka]

I've seen the second one - it's very nice. Thx for Your time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Sirasoni]

Snozy: I could be wrong, but these players generally do not play postflop tricky at all and will fold to your cbet more often than a tag. 3betting these players light is still not THAT bad, but of course if you prefer, feel free to err on the side of caution and just 3b with a tight range (if you really feel that they will play very big pots with you lightly).

gcaash: A mirror was posted, http://www.sendspace.com/file/56rf93

maciczka: Thanks, no problem /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ICMoney]

Much appreciated.

Downloading both now.

[Snozynoze]

Great videos, both of them.
Watched them both, and enjoy'd them.

Thanks so much, and where do i sign up for your newsletter?

[purpledragon]

Thanks for sharing, both were excellent videos, helped me alot with situations i sometimes get into and im unsure what to do, would love to see more in the future!

[pipernga]

Thank you for this amazing video, and I can't wait until you come out with another one. I like how you were stealing blinds on almost every chance. I never thought of it as in long term, when I play I don't steal blinds at the 25nl level. After watching the video, now I will be stealing more often as I play 6 tables at a time and it can end up being very profitable. When you get played back at when stealing, do you just fold? Also, when you get called and then checked to on the flop do you always con bet even when you have junk?

[the pang]

I downloaded the video but am unable to find a player. What do you recommend for viewing?

The first one worked fine in Windows media player but this one is larger.

[TTStrangler]

[ QUOTE ]
I downloaded the video but am unable to find a player. What do you recommend for viewing?

The first one worked fine in Windows media player but this one is larger.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you say "larger" do you mean you can't view it? What are you getting when you attempt to launch it? The post from fozzy helped me, I couldn't see the video but could hear the audio.

From fozzy: "http://www.techsmith.com/codecs/tscc/default.asp


the techsmith codec - then WMP should play it fine."

[the pang]

By larger I mean the file size of the second video is larger than the first. It is downloadings as a .avi.

In windows media player I get sound but no video.
In Real Player it wants to download additional software but freezes up (may be the firewall)
In Quicktime it doesn't load.

I will try the link.

Thanks

[the pang]

I down loaded it and it works fine. Hope to learn something new about NL cash games.

Thanks again