25nl, KK river recision

[DopamineRelease]

Villain is 24/15/1.5 over 40 hands. Probably should have gone with $1.50 on the flop. Comments on all streets welcome but I am really wondering about the river.

Am I wrong to think that villian is betting for value? The only busted draw I see him betting here is 10 J and I don't know why he would play it like this. That leads me to believe he has a big hand here. I think we can only call or fold river. What kind of range can we put him on in this spot? Thanks


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $25.00
BB: $35.35
UTG: $29.55
MP: $25.00
Hero (CO): $24.60
BTN: $25.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt K/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.85</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.35</font>, BB calls $1.35

Turn: ($4.50) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.25</font>, BB calls $3.25

River: ($11) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $7.50</font>, Hero ????

Pot Size: $26.00 ($1.30 Rake)

[PleasureGuy69]

He's pretty passive... could this be some sort of blocking bet with AQ, KQ? if he had 99,55, Q9Ss, you'd think he'd c/r the turn?

[Ramana]

I call, you just counterfeited some 2p combos, a missed draw could bet into you, he could use the 6 as a scare card. His range is much much wider than just sets or 78 or a 6.

[nexah3]

You're probably still good here; I'd just call though.

[Zach Belden]

i call. i think the only hands that beat you here are 67/78 and raising only folds out the ones you beat.

[mookboi]

Call, no way I'm folding for this much.

[DopamineRelease]

[ QUOTE ]
He's pretty passive... could this be some sort of blocking bet with AQ, KQ? if he had 99,55, Q9Ss, you'd think he'd c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I think he would c/r the turn with a set or 2 pr. Thats why I was so confused by his river bet. I never considered folding this so I just called.

[DopamineRelease]

My other reason for this post is to ask you guys what you would have done if he c/r the flop or c/c the flop and c/r the turn. I think if he c/r the turn then its a fold. Also, what if he c/c flop and turn then c/r ai on the river? I always seem to overplay big pairs...

[mookboi]

Fold to turn &amp; river CRAI.

As for the flop.. eh... I 3bet.

[Student Caine]

Grunch:

Preflop: Is there a specific reason you do not raise to 4xBB here? Are you trying to keep him sucked in to the hand at the expense of the 15 cents?

Flop: I think you're right...I like a bet in the 3/4-Pot range here

Turn: Standard

River: Wow...tough spot...he ~3/4 donks into us. The 6 is a scare card, maybe he is trying to push us off of our TP with it - the turn does help us in that it counterfeits a poorly played two pair.

A set/two pair seems unlikely as they probably would have raised the turn. 87 also seems unlikely and also would have probably raised the turn. I do not see a Queen betting like this, so the only thing that we could be up against is a pure bluff.

I hate to fold this, but I do not see how we can call. But I really, really hate to fold this haha.

After thinking this through I probably fold as i have no clue what he was drawing to that bluffs the river. I can guarantee you that if I were playing this with the 30 second timer, I would not have had enough time to convince myself to lay it down.

[Student Caine]

c/r the turn is a fold.

c/r the river after two c/c's...if we fiugure you bet the same $7.50 he did, then you have about $12 left, so you would be getting 3:1...I do not think I can fold that...crying call time.

[DopamineRelease]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

Preflop: Is there a specific reason you do not raise to 4xBB here? Are you trying to keep him sucked in to the hand at the expense of the 15 cents?

Flop: I think you're right...I like a bet in the 3/4-Pot range here

Turn: Standard

River: Wow...tough spot...he ~3/4 donks into us. The 6 is a scare card, maybe he is trying to push us off of our TP with it - the turn does help us in that it counterfeits a poorly played two pair.

A set/two pair seems unlikely as they probably would have raised the turn. 87 also seems unlikely and also would have probably raised the turn. I do not see a Queen betting like this, so the only thing that we could be up against is a pure bluff.

I hate to fold this, but I do not see how we can call. But I really, really hate to fold this haha.

After thinking this through I probably fold as i have no clue what he was drawing to that bluffs the river. I can guarantee you that if I were playing this with the 30 second timer, I would not have had enough time to convince myself to lay it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, no I am not trying to keep him sucked into the hand at the expense of $.15. I multitable and use the bet pot button most of the time because it is quick and easy.

I am a little confused by your post because you contradict yourself a few times. You say that the only thing we can be up against is a pure bluff but in the next line you say you can not call this. If you are putting him on a bluff because it does not seem like his hand is strong then why not make the call?

[Student Caine]

[ QUOTE ]

First off, no I am not trying to keep him sucked into the hand at the expense of $.15. I multitable and use the bet pot button most of the time because it is quick and easy.

I am a little confused by your post because you contradict yourself a few times. You say that the only thing we can be up against is a pure bluff but in the next line you say you can not call this. If you are putting him on a bluff because it does not seem like his hand is strong then why not make the call?

[/ QUOTE ]

The .15 question: Was a legitimate question, I honestly was not sure why you chose to bet pot and was trying to see if you had some specific reason. Sorry you took offense to it.

Contradictions: You are correct. I apologize as I was posting from work and changed my post around a few times and obviously left a huge contradiction in it. What I was trying to convey was that I thought the only holding he had that we beat was a bluff as I did not see a Q playing like that. The fact that I had "eliminated" two pair or a set due to the lack of a turn raise should have been conveyed differently to show that while I did not see it as a likely holding I did not discount it completely.

My decision to fold was based upon the fact that I did not see what he could possibly be drawing to that missed, therefore putting him in a position to bluff - therefore I was concluding a strong hand. This was also not conveyed clearly and was again contradicted by my earlier statement that a set or two pair was unlikely as I thought that either one of those holdings would have raised the Turn (as stated previously).

[mookboi]

Dude I'm still super lost.
I don't see how folding is an option here.

[DopamineRelease]

Student Cain - I never took offense to it, just stating why I raised to .85. Thanks for reworking your post, your opinion on this hand now makes sense to me.

Anyways, I feared villian took a passive line with a strong hand when he bet the river. However, I called the river and he showed 99 and won the hand. I don't see why he didn't raise the turn but it saved me money.

[Student Caine]

I just don't see what he does this with that we beat. Maybe I am too used to full blown river donk bets meaning insane strength and maybe I am used to the Turn being the center for slowplayed aggression because I play at 10NL.

We are getting like 2.5:1 to call here....am I wrong in saying that I do not think we are good here 1 out of every 3.5 times? Am I misjudging villain's ability to bet the scare card, or his ability to donk TP (or another PP)?

[mookboi]

AQ, KQ, Q9 going "ZOMG I trap goot." Air going "I have 6 fool, fold." JT thinking "Hmph. Can't win by checking."
TT or JJ deciding hero had AK... I dunno, people show up here with garbage often enough for this call to be correct. I would call this with AQ, as played. KK is a must IMO.