Kings 300bbs deep against 2 aggro opponants

[cooker3]

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $352.40
BB: $69.25
hero (UTG): $156.90
CO: $41.00
BTN: $123.80

Reads: <font color="blue">Button is 42/16/1.4 over 200 hands. He is very very aggressive, can and has made moves and all round is very good player, possibly the best and trickiest player I have come accross.

Sb is 39/19/4 over 200 hands. He is also very aggressive. He can make moves and c/r cont bets but not quite as fancy as button, a tad more solid but compared to typical 50nl villain very aggressive.

I have been very aggressive as well and we have all been 3/4 betting light, and raising continuation bets on the flop</font>

Preflop: hero is dealt Khttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Khttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">hero raises to $2.00</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $2.00, SB calls $1.75, BB folds

Flop: ($6.50) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">hero bets $5.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $13.50</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $27.00</font>

So whats your move and plan if you don't fold for the turn?

[good_gamble]

I generally would fold this, as we are going to be playing for stacks and despite villians being aggro, SB still looks super strong here.
It's possible that I would continue sometimes but that would depend on the general flow of the game between us and the 2 villians.

[toddxlogan]

If I continue this, I HATE having to deal with a turn card.

I think a HUGE percentage of these guys ranges are semibluffs. Lots of straight draws, especially combo straight+flush draws, lots of Ahxh hands. ETC. I assume that the first raiser could be just messing with your c-bet and/or have a semibluff/draw hand, and that the second raiser, knowing the first is likely to be raising litely, is often re-raising here with a semibluffish hand (though almost never air, I imagine, if he is decent). Further,I think decent, thinking laggy players know that ESPECIALLY against other laggy players, trapping is actually a pretty good play for them. For this reason, if you were murdered, I think these guys probably wouldn't be so boisterous on the flop.

Thus, just about any card other than a J or Q on this board (or any heart other than a k) scares the [censored] out of me. Name it - it completes a draw, and gives us the opportunity to make a REALLY big mistake on a really big decision with very little information.

Hence, I really like a big ass re-raise and a call of a push, expecting to see combo-draws a huge portion of the time. Am I crazy?

The whole 300BBthing does complicate this a lot. On second thought, that does make calling and reevaluating on the turn seem like it has a looooot more merit. So I might actually disagree with my first assessment based on how damn deep you are. But I think I do like it well past 100BB, just maybe not 300BB..hmmm... Gotta think more about this.

[good_gamble]

I think your analysis is good todd, but I don't think that these villians will be thinking that deeply. Just looking at their stats, neither player seems very good so I doubt they are thinking many levels deep, which makes me lean more towards one of them having a monster.

[corsakh]

I like insta muck. WTF is there to think about.

[toddxlogan]

Yeah, but read cookers assessment of them. He says they are good. My assessment is DEFINITELY only relevant if they are thinking (or at least half-thinking) lags.

Todd

Edit: My analysis doesn't require THAT much intelligence on the part of villains. Villain one needs only to think: hmm, c-bet in a decent size pot, i'm gonna [censored] with this guy here, and Villain 2 only needs to think, hmmm...Villain1 has been raising a shitton with air, my drawy hand is fine against most hands, and a reraise here looks really scary so they'll probably fold.

[ryang]

[ QUOTE ]
I like insta muck. WTF is there to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]

LDO

[WarhammerIIC]

The fact that you are playing against two very aggressive opponents who just flat-called you preflop is a little scary. Sure, their 3-betting range is probably nothing like their open-raising range, but still. My guess is that you're ahead here, but might have to put your whole stack in to find out. If you could close the betting, I'd say just call and see if the turn is safe. But, you don't close the betting. So, I'd probably end up folding here, and then cry as they showdown AhQh and TT.

[hennnerz]

[ QUOTE ]
I like insta muck. WTF is there to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bit harsh. Its a standard fold though, one pair deepstacked and all that...

[hennnerz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like insta muck. WTF is there to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]

LDO

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your pic? link?

[Kasane]

They'd have to be certifiably insane for me to go further with this hand. One good thing, when you only raise 4bb into to 300bb stacks, you're not playing for stacks from the get go (well, we never are, but you get what I mean I hope.) Since you're so deep, villains can call with such a wide range of hands that we can barely call it more than a pot sweetener pf -- ie, we can't narrow their range enough to stand a raise very often. Certainly not a raise and a reraise.

I'd think about upping your pf range, as villains seem (from stats) to have adjusted to the stack size and are calling a lot lighter. These stats, with 100bb, would normally indicate donks -- but with 300bb stacks, good players will see a lot more flops with a larger range of hands. I'm assuming these stats come from a long stint at the same table from your read on them and stack sizes.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
I like insta muck. WTF is there to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow...would you look at that....

FoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFoldFo ldFoldFoldFold

Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold Fold



That's my thought process when I see this.

[sightless]

fold);