Two FTP NL$50 hands

[mrpotto]

Going through my PT and finding the trouble spot hands to see what people think.

Hand 1 No reads with a caveat that I tend not to give short stacks much respect.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
hero: $49.50
UTG+1: $15.40
CO: $73
Button: $88.05
SB: $70.25
BB: $25.95

Pre-flop: (6 players) hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $2</font>, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif ($4.25, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $6</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero ???

Hand 2

No reads other than villain seemed to be what I call a limp-donk (limps then always calls a raise). He had done this a few times. Is this a fold?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $51.55
UTG+1: $52.60
CO: $47.50
Button: $106.55
hero: $55.05
BB: $58.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $2.5</font>, BB folds, CO calls.

Flop: 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($5.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $4</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($13.5, 2 players)
hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $6</font>, hero calls.

River: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif ($25.5, 2 players)
hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $15</font>, hero ????

[mattnxtc]

You can probably get away from hand one

Hand 2 I dont like the way you played this. Would much prefer a bet especially b/c you picked up the redraw to the flush.

It is a pretty easy river call though as played.

[good_gamble]

Hand 1 i fold and get put on tilt by the check min raise /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand 2 as Matt said bet the turn - around 8 seems good (prolly be a fold if he raises tho). As played I call river unless his agg. factor is ridic low

[ps27]

Sort off topic, but if you know he will call a lot preflop after limping isnt it better to get more in the pot even if it is not your standard play?

[ryang]

hand 1 i'm floating, bet 11 on tunr
hand 2, you played bad, raise turn, eh river, is iffy.


edit : eh sorry didnt relize hand 1 is SS, prolly fold. read dependent tho.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Hand 1: These minraises usually indicate that they have something, becuase they want you to call. I'd put him on a least a pair of kings here, and possibly two pair or a set.

Hand 2: Definitely bet strong on the turn. You can't assume that he has made a flush here.

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Definitely bet strong on the turn. You can't assume that he has made a flush here.

[/ QUOTE ]
what do you guys put villain on here? the flop was all low cards.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Definitely bet strong on the turn. You can't assume that he has made a flush here.

[/ QUOTE ]
what do you guys put villain on here? the flop was all low cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

These calling station donks can have a lot of different hands here. A6, pocket 8s, gutshot straight draw, who knows? It's tough to narrow him down to a particular hand just based on the preflop/flop betting.

[mattnxtc]

I would assume ax is in his range

[mrpotto]

Hand two was a set that turned into a boat. I ended up calling it down. I now see how I should have bet the turn though.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand two was a set that turned into a boat. I ended up calling it down. I now see how I should have bet the turn though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, if you bet strong on the turn and he calls, then you can lean towards check/folding on the river. If you just check/call, you really can't put him on a hand, and you really do need to call all the way through the river.

But when you bet big on the turn, an opponent usually isn't calling a large flop bet AND a large turn bet with anything that you beat, especially when there are three flush cards on the board.

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
But when you bet big on the turn, an opponent usually isn't calling a large flop bet AND a large turn bet with anything that you beat, especially when there are three flush cards on the board.


[/ QUOTE ]
exactly - this is an argument for a check on the turn for hand 2

[Lego05]

Hand 1: Fold

Hand 2: Raise more pre-flop against a player with that read.

Bet/fold turn.

On the river you need to be good like 27.5% of the time. Depends greatly on player's agg. particularly his river agg. IMO.

[mattnxtc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But when you bet big on the turn, an opponent usually isn't calling a large flop bet AND a large turn bet with anything that you beat, especially when there are three flush cards on the board.


[/ QUOTE ]
exactly - this is an argument for a check on the turn for hand 2

[/ QUOTE ]

and an extremely weak line

[wslee00]

can someone please explain why it's better to bet/fold the turn rather than check call?

my line would be c/c turn, c/c reasonable river bet.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
can someone please explain why it's better to bet/fold the turn rather than check call?

my line would be c/c turn, c/c reasonable river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Charge lone diamonds instead of letting them check behind and draw for free. Can still get calls from mid-pairs. If you check river then IMO he is usually only betting with nothing, sets, or flushes. Bet the turn to get some value and then check call river (if it's a reasonably small bet) to let him bluff. If he raises turn fold - he has a flush (maybe a set).

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
can someone please explain why it's better to bet/fold the turn rather than check call?

my line would be c/c turn, c/c reasonable river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't look so bad here, since the opponent bet relatively weakly, but what do you do if your opponent, say, bets pot on the turn and then bets pot on the river? Or if he shoves on the turn? You don't really have a good idea of where you stand and whether he is representing a strong hand or whether he is bluffing since you have shown weakness, and you might be forced to fold a hand that is likely best.

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
Charge lone diamonds instead of letting them check behind and draw for free. Can still get calls from mid-pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]
We have the Qd so I'm not too scared of giving lone diamonds a free draw to possibly a worse hand. W/o the Qd, I would also b/f. I do think you can get a call from a mid-pair, although I think your chances are slim that he'll call a good size river bet. You can probably get the same call by checking the turn and betting the river.

[ QUOTE ]
but what do you do if your opponent, say, bets pot on the turn and then bets pot on the river? Or if he shoves on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
these two reasons assume your villain is quite aggressive in this hand. From the looks of it, and OP's description of villain, he seems like a calling station. I think we can assume if he bets strong on turn/river, he has something that beats us.