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View Full Version : 2NL, TT facing turn min raise with draw


TTStrangler
08-28-2007, 11:02 AM
Hello, have been lurking on here for quite a while, have been playing the penny games to start learning. Have read through the anthology/sticky quite a bit, but have a long way to go before even compehending all that great information. The anthology encourages to post hands for learning, so I'm going to post a couple today that has left me confused as to what was the correct play.

Villian in this hand was much more aggresive after the flop. Just to get the history a little I'm going to post one hand that Villian and I were in that led me to my confusion on the real hand in question. He had pushed like this several times throughout the game.

Stats on Villian 56.76/4.50 over 111 hands. BTW, what is the third stat supposed to be from Poker Tracker? X/Y/(Z)

Sample Hand:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($5.09)
BB ($2.74)
UTG ($1.65)
MP ($2.53)
Button ($5.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.02, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $0.08</font>, [color=#CC3333]BB raises to $0.14</font>, UTG calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.06.

Flop: ($0.42) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, [color=#CC3333]UTG bets $1.51 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $1.51, BB folds.

Turn: ($0) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($0) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $3.44

Villian showed [Th Jh] and won ($3.29) with two pair, Jacks and Tens


Ok, here is the hand in question that happened later:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($5.19)
Button ($5.94)
SB ($2.23)
BB ($1)
UTG ($5.98)

Preflop: Hero is MP with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/td.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/ts.gif.
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $0.08</font>, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, SB calls $0.07, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($0.18) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/9c.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/js.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/9s.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $0.1</font>, SB calls $0.10.

Turn: ($0.38) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/qc.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $0.3</font>, [color=#CC3333]SB raises to $0.6</font>

I have a straight draw, does that justify a call of the turn raise? Or since the board is already paired, and Villian could already have a straight, should I have just folded. Should I also have just checked the turn?

BTW, the preview of this post looks really wierd (my first) did I do something wrong? I just used the converter and copy pasted the results.

Jzo19
08-28-2007, 11:17 AM
z is postflop AF (aggresion factor) , check out POKEY's article about what pokertracker stats mean in the sticky

hand 1
once UTG calls BB's 3bet i put in a 4bet to get the hand heads up, overall hand is a cooler and villain is an uberdonk ...

hand 2
bet more on flop in hand 2 , i call the turn minraise and see a riv ...

TTStrangler
08-28-2007, 11:58 AM
Thanks,

hand 1:
-Ya sometimes I fear monsters under the bed when 3 bet by a villian i've never seen 3 bet. Probably not good. Especially multiway.

hand 2:
-I agree with the bigger continuation bet, I've been mostly betting 1/2 - 2/3 pot for continuation bets at this level because more often than not, people will fold to it, and Villians have a hard time distinguishing it from a real value bet. I suppose this is poor reasoning though huh, and I should be continuation betting 3/4 - PSB? It makes a double barrel turn bet/bluff hard to make though cause it will need to be so big by then.

-Call the turn raise to fit (8, T, or K, or cheap show down) or fold to aggression on the river?

good_gamble
08-28-2007, 12:14 PM
Yeah agree with 4-bet hand 1.

Hand 2 c-bet size is normally okay but against a donk I make it slightly more just for extra value. I just call the turn min raise but I think it's better to check behind in 1st place as there are now 2 overcards as well as an underpair to our PP and even against a donk, hardly any worse hands are calling a bet here.