Is this spewy?

[cooker3]

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $21.25
hero (BB): $50.00
UTG: $55.35
MP: $49.25
CO: $72.05
BTN: $65.50

Preflop: hero is dealt Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Ahttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $2.00</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">hero raises to $6.50</font>, UTG folds, BTN calls $4.50

Flop: ($13.75) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Jhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">hero bets $7.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises all-in to $59.00</font>, hero calls all-in for $36.50

Pot Size: $116.25

Ok, I am showing what I did as that is my question, is this really spewy. I felt he could have a a smaller pocker pair a lot. He is 54/20 over 50 hands.
I did a poker stove and got this

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

36,630 games 0.002 secs 18,315,000 games/sec

Board: 2s 2c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.661% 43.82% 00.84% 16053 306.50 { AcTc }
Hand 1: 55.339% 54.50% 00.84% 19964 306.50 { AdAh, AhAs, KhKs, TT-77, AKs, AcQc, AsQs, AJs, AJo }


Am I just a calling station?

[BevillTheDevil]

if you honestly think thats villian's range then good call...i think you only have to be good here like around 1/3ish to make this profitable. Id probably cbet more tho like 10ish.

[cooker3]

[ QUOTE ]
if you honestly think thats villian's range then good call...i think you only have to be good here like around 1/3ish to make this profitable. Id probably cbet more tho like 10ish.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 3 bet pots I like to bet smaller as I can bet less and still comfortabley get it all in and also I do 3 bet light a good bit so helps me save money when I have to fold

[toddxlogan]

Total spew.

Cooker, you are kidding yourself with that range. Why do you include all TT-77 combos, but no QQ combos, only 1 KK combo, and keep 1 AA combo out?

[kindergartencop]

i agree with todd, even for a guy with poor numbers that range seems off. cbet 10 or 11 and i like it better.

[cooker3]

[ QUOTE ]
Total spew.

Cooker, you are kidding yourself with that range. Why do you include all TT-77 combos, but no QQ combos, only 1 KK combo, and keep 1 AA combo out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he called my 3 bet pf so in general people 4 bet AA, KK pretty much always but I do find some people flat call so I decided to include but with less combos which I feel is fairly realistic situation
As for queens, I think that most people would 4 bet me all the time as I have been so aggressive and it's hard to play on the flop when A or K hits.
Someone said to me I should include jacks which I agree with, that makes it 41/59 if you stove it.
As for why I include all combos TT-77, well I think thats reasonable, with just 1 overcard I think it would be reasonable for him assume that he is ahead of me .
Would he call a 3 bet with it? against me yeah I think someone would.

[toddxlogan]

In general coherent players will 4-bet, but who knows what the [censored] 50/20 retards are going to do.

For that reason, I think it is necessary to have all QQ-AA hands in range. (Not sure I agree that JJ should be put in here; I think that is the one hand that NEVER pushes this flop0 And yeah, you are definitely right that TT-77 call your 4-bet. But I think TT-77 are a WAAAAY less likely to take the above action that the combos of QQ-AA are.

I think you see AA here the plurality of the time with KK right behind it.

[Vedocorban]

Yeah this is spewy. Somehow you got 100 BBs into the pot with a flush draw on a paired board at NL50.

There's no shame in folding preflop, even if the guy is 50/20. A lot of people might disagree with me, but your hand is very easily dominated and hard to play out of position. This is not the kind of spot where I'm looking to build a big pot.

[cooker3]

[ QUOTE ]
In general coherent players will 4-bet, but who knows what the [censored] 50/20 retards are going to do.

For that reason, I think it is necessary to have all QQ-AA hands in range. (Not sure I agree that JJ should be put in here; I think that is the one hand that NEVER pushes this flop0 And yeah, you are definitely right that TT-77 call your 4-bet. But I think TT-77 are a WAAAAY less likely to take the above action that the combos of QQ-AA are.

I think you see AA here the plurality of the time with KK right behind it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not think AA-QQ pushes a lot pf? That is the reason I give them less combos because I think the hand ends pf a lot. I am trying to weight it properly and as such. I am honestly trying not to weight it so it sort of justifies my play (least not consciously)

As for just folding pf, I do disagree with poster who says just fold pf. These guys will run you over if you fold ATs in position when they open raise. He will and has called 3 bets oop with far worse hands then ATs.

Edit, oops I am oop here of course but even so I feel I have to 3 bet me, folding AT to guy that is 50/20 and raising on the button is just asking to be run over and I feel I can outplay him

[tarheeljks]

based on his stats he's been active pf, but what about postflop. i think i'd rather just call pf, but if he's been splashing around post i think this is fine.

[InsideEdge]

fold pf, i dont see what you are trying to achieve with the pf raise. You gauranteed to be in a difficult position on the flop.

No need to make these kind of moves.

[Lego05]

I havne't read anything besides OP:

You need to be good about 37% of the time here. This range is much more likely IMO:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

27,720 games 0.005 secs 5,544,000 games/sec

Board: 2s 2c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.742% 34.64% 00.10% 9602 28.50 { AcTc }
Hand 1: 65.258% 65.16% 00.10% 18061 28.50 { AdAh, AdAs, AhAs, KK-QQ, JdJh, JdJs, JhJs, AdJd, AhJh, AsJs, KcQc, AdJh, AdJs, AhJd, AhJs, AsJd, AsJh }




Fold it.

[.xxxx.]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pf, i dont see what you are trying to achieve with the pf raise. You gauranteed to be in a difficult position on the flop.

No need to make these kind of moves.

[/ QUOTE ]

3betting pf here is standard against a 50/20 on the BTN

[.xxxx.]

Why not crai on the flop? Give villain the opportunity to fire out with those mid pp's and AK/AQ's. Once those hands are added to villain's range, you're so money.

Also, had OP led 10/11 for a cbet, the numbers would have been pushed to a marginal call based on lego's good assessment for villain's range

[XHitman014]

I like everything .xxxx. said. If the hand was a little better planned, the call would be fine on the flop. Also, the 3-bet is most likely better than both a 54/20's opening range and calling range. It will be a difficult hand to play postflop, but better bet sizing would have made this hand play itself.

[monkeymaps]

anyone else not thrilled with 3bet pre due to the presence of the UTG limper?

no limpers 3bet is standard I dont really like it as much in this spot.

[wslee00]

It's not spew as everyone is saying, but it is still a -EV call. You are basically a 2:1 dog, and the money in the pot vs. what you have to call do not justify one.

oh - and i think pf 3-bet is marginal, not horrible, but not good either.

[WarhammerIIC]

LOL... did you really include AcQc in your range? What the heck? You have the Ac!!

[.xxxx.]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL... did you really include AcQc in your range? What the heck? You have the Ac!!

[/ QUOTE ]

where'd you get that from?

[Zues]

[ QUOTE ]
Total spew.

[/ QUOTE ]

[BevillTheDevil]

[ QUOTE ]

Board: 2s 2c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.742% 34.64% 00.10% 9602 28.50 { AcTc }
Hand 1: 65.258% 65.16% 00.10% 18061 28.50 { AdAh, AdAs, AhAs, KK-QQ, JdJh, JdJs, JhJs, AdJd, AhJh, AsJs, KcQc, AdJh, AdJs, AhJd, AhJs, AsJd, AsJh }




Fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a pretty narrow range IMO to put on a 50/20 guy

OP read is that villian has a small PP (obv could be a bad read) but with that in mind i kinda assume this guy is aggro post flop but obv not necessarly true. BUT if villian is aggro post then your range IMO is def to narrow. I just stoved it myself and got us good 38% of the time w/o counting many other FDs which makes it slightly +EV call(obv high variance but still +EV). 4 some reason it doesnt copy/paste for me tho...

[shark_fishin]

i prefer a CRAI on the flop
and also, i have no problem with pre-flop

[cooker3]

I still really think a 3 bet is mandatory here. I also think I am ahead of villains 3 bet calling range especially when he is in position as people tend to call more often then.

An the crai is interesting, the reason I don't do it is because I never ever do it when I have taken the inititive pre-flop. It looks so super strong and you have the whole never folds a hand I beat and never calls when behind effect although in this case that would be great if I could get him to lay down what he has so maybe it is something I have to consider more.

Judging by replies, people seem to think it's marginal either way which I supposes means it's not too spewy.

Oh also, am I right in lessing the amount of combos for aces and kings because as I stated already I feel he is more likely to 4 bet them or is this flawed. People seem to disagree with that yet it seems to makes sense in my head anyway. Thoughts?