AK - Bleeding money..... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

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maca9

08-26-2007, 07:29 AM

Hi all

I have tried to be aggressive and Cbet these.

Any comments?

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

BB ($24.80)
UTG ($41.40)
Hero ($20.25)
Button ($39.90)
SB ($10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB calls $1.

Turn: ($4.10) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($4.10) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $4.1, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $8.20

Hand 2

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

BB ($25)
UTG ($41.30)
Hero ($22.50)
Button ($24.40)
SB ($12.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.85) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Button calls $1.

Turn: ($3.85) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, Button calls $2.25.

River: ($8.35) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $8.35

whyzze

08-26-2007, 07:31 AM

Can you post a similar hand where you have AA instead of AK? Preferably one where villian folds.

maca9

08-26-2007, 07:50 AM

I can't find one right now.

But i guess you are wanting to look if i play it different so they can tell?

I always raise 3-4 BB with either hand and try to value or cbet 2/3 pot.

Maybe i am genuinely hitting resistance due to them having caught the flop in these cases?

Doe they look ok to cbet on?

whyzze

08-26-2007, 07:56 AM

Ya...you got the idea..and it may not just be that they are noticing. Your cbets are more like 1/2 pot than 2/3..I would say minimum 2/3.

Other than that I always cbet AK hu. Now as for double barreling...these are not good situations, the boards are coordinated and the turns have not changed much.

danny8

08-26-2007, 08:44 AM

i'd cbet more in both hands.. like ~$1.75 in the first and ~$1.5 in the 2nd. if youre readless i wouldnt bother firing a 2nd barrel in hand 2. too many draws he can call with and since your oop hes gonna see you check the river and he might bet his busted draws, which you cant realy call yet

maca9

08-26-2007, 08:52 AM

Thanks guys. Both your comments make sense.

I think size of CBET i need to reconsider.

If you commit to making a cbet then you need to follow through and bet a decent size.

Am I right in noticing that on 2+2 it seems to be generally accpeted that you need to cbet more than the 1/3 to 1/2 spoken of by Harrington in HOH1??

LOLDONKBETZ

08-26-2007, 09:22 AM

yes, 2/3 to full pot so you can actually get value in further streets when you have hit

Hoffma

08-26-2007, 09:35 AM

I had to check PT. I cbet 67% of the time, and raise another 10%, so I'm showing flop aggression in my raised pots more than 75% of the time. Probably leaky as hell though.

ajrees

08-26-2007, 09:38 AM

PF raise seems OK. I usually raise 4xBB + 1 per limper no matter what I'm raising with, but 3xBB is OK.

I think you need to make your Cbets a little bit higher - $1.50-$1.60 in the first hand and $1.30-$1.40 in the second hand.

I would fire again on the turn for ~$3.50 in the first hand and check-fold if we are called/raised. However, If an Ace or King comes on the river there then you are laughing.

In the second hand the villain might be on a clubs draw. If you are going to double barrel on the turn then I would make it about $3.40.

mertzo

08-26-2007, 09:42 AM

the only mayor leak here is the turn bet in hand2

incognitus

08-26-2007, 10:16 AM

$1 into $2.1 is asking to get bluff reraised or he will get to draw very cheap.

Khaos4k

08-26-2007, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys. Both your comments make sense.

I think size of CBET i need to reconsider.

If you commit to making a cbet then you need to follow through and bet a decent size.

Am I right in noticing that on 2+2 it seems to be generally accpeted that you need to cbet more than the 1/3 to 1/2 spoken of by Harrington in HOH1??

[/ QUOTE ]

HOH is a tournament book, a lot of good stuff, but some of it needs to be adapted. Tournaments will usually not be 100BB deep, but more like 5-50BB where a 1/3 or 1/2 pot bet is a much more significant portion of someone's stack.

ICMoney

08-26-2007, 03:40 PM

1/2 psb is not an effective CB.

I would CB 2/3 or 3/4 at a min for these stakes.

Do you ever double-barrel?
Maybe try a delayed CB next time.

Dumle

08-26-2007, 06:04 PM

Check turn in hand 2. Other than that, it looks good.

Dumle

Dumle

08-26-2007, 06:09 PM

A response to the other posters: No one pays attention. At these stakes only a few people (very few) notices if you play AA the same or if you c-bet small when you miss or big when you hit. You have almost the same FE if you bet 1/2 pot as you do when you bet 2/3 pots, and it makes a difference in your WR if you only lose 4 BB instead of 6 everytime he decides to call or raise.

Dumle

netstorm

08-26-2007, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A response to the other posters: No one pays attention. At these stakes only a few people (very few) notices if you play AA the same or if you c-bet small when you miss or big when you hit. You have almost the same FE if you bet 1/2 pot as you do when you bet 2/3 pots, and it makes a difference in your WR if you only lose 4 BB instead of 6 everytime he decides to call or raise.

Dumle

[/ QUOTE ]

no, no and no!

So if the board comes JT5 with 2 spades, you only bet 1/2 pot, letting everyone and their pet getting correct odds?

You vary the size of your cbets based on how the flop looks like. You let people pay a high price for their possible draws.

And who says noone is paying any attention? People with 35/5 stats may look like donks, but they only play 1 table. Eventually they will pick up on your betting habits, and because you are mindlessly 8-tabling, and only betting 1/2 PSB, you will get raised with air much more.

orange

08-26-2007, 06:39 PM

1 fine
2 i typically c/f turn vs unknown.

Dumle

08-26-2007, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So if the board comes JT5 with 2 spades, you only bet 1/2 pot, letting everyone and their pet getting correct odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

At these levels, it is usually a good idea to give up on the turn if they call a flop bet. And they will call this bet with all kinds of draws. Once in a while, you may win with your a-high unimproved when they check down, but often you will face a bet on either turn or river. You will face this bet whether you bet 1/2 or 2/3 on the flop, and you will have to give up regardless as well.

[ QUOTE ]
You vary the size of your cbets based on how the flop looks like. You let people pay a high price for their possible draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you got something, this is usually a good idea, yes.

[ QUOTE ]
And who says noone is paying any attention? People with 35/5 stats may look like donks, but they only play 1 table. Eventually they will pick up on your betting habits, and because you are mindlessly 8-tabling, and only betting 1/2 PSB, you will get raised with air much more.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how many hands will you play against them during a session? Often not enough. The next session they wont remember you. I do agree, though, that those you play against frequently (I have about 8-10 of those) it may be a good idea to not play entirely predictable, but they are very few and far between.

This may be some ramblings. Am tired. Will get back tommorrow.

Dumle