Site says they can't return my funds cuz I"m in the US, help plz!

[bkholdem]

Code Poker, taken over by The Palace Group, is refusing to return the funds that I have on deposit there saying they can not because I am in the US and they would be breaking the law to do so.

I have exchanged 3-4 emails with their customer service reps over the past few days and am getting the run around, stock replies that avoid answering my questions, etc.

Every other poker site that disallowed US players returned the funds I had on deposit there without issue but this site is refusing to do so.

They are giving me a 'sorry, our hands are tied' stock replies pretty much.

What can I do to get my money back? Any advice from the people in this forum would be greatly appreciated. I just dont understand why they can not cut me a check.

What can/should I do?

[Skallagrim]

1) The one part of the legal status of online poker that I can tell you for certain is that no US law is being broken by sending funds TO you.

2) For most small poker sites the amount of time you have invested in this is pretty small - it may well be that some idiot in support does not realize that while it may be difficult for the company to find a processer for the funds because of the UIGEA, the sending of funds itself does not violate the law - i.e. the support person you talked to might not understand the difference between delay for legal reasons, and never.

3) On the other hand, it wouldnt be the first time in history that a poker site has not returned funds because it either doesnt have the funds or has other problems. If that turns out to be the case, you have little recourse - try contacting whatever place "licenses" them, and use the web to post warnings for others.

Skallagrim

[TheRedRocket]

bk,

if the only thing preventing them from sending you money is the law then they should be more than willing to allow you to transfer to someone who is not in the US and allow them to withdraw for you. This assumes that you know of or could find someone with mutual trust between you but it would be a surefire way to see if they are on the level or if they are really just screwing you because they think they can

[LegallyBlind]

[ QUOTE ]
I have exchanged 3-4 emails with their customer service reps over the past few days and am getting the run around, stock replies that avoid answering my questions, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

you need to get them on the phone for something this serious

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
bk,

if the only thing preventing them from sending you money is the law then they should be more than willing to allow you to transfer to someone who is not in the US and allow them to withdraw for you. This assumes that you know of or could find someone with mutual trust between you but it would be a surefire way to see if they are on the level or if they are really just screwing you because they think they can

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I appreciate this. I am waiting to try to back them into a corner on this angle more before suggesting it to make it more difficult to modify their position saying they would be subverting the law because since I am a us player they are engaging in some subversion of the law by doing this.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
1) The one part of the legal status of online poker that I can tell you for certain is that no US law is being broken by sending funds TO you.

2) For most small poker sites the amount of time you have invested in this is pretty small - it may well be that some idiot in support does not realize that while it may be difficult for the company to find a processer for the funds because of the UIGEA, the sending of funds itself does not violate the law - i.e. the support person you talked to might not understand the difference between delay for legal reasons, and never.

3) On the other hand, it wouldnt be the first time in history that a poker site has not returned funds because it either doesnt have the funds or has other problems. If that turns out to be the case, you have little recourse - try contacting whatever place "licenses" them, and use the web to post warnings for others.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Thanks very much. I will communicate 1 and 2 to them when I get beyond the cust service rep. A cust service rep told me they were forwarding my email to 'operations' and that just seemed to generate a new tracking number in the customer service operations dept as the first cust service rep who responded started a new email thread at our last communication.

[IrishDwarf]

Next step would be the Better Business Bureau. You can file online but you have to file in the state the company operates in.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Next step would be the Better Business Bureau. You can file online but you have to file in the state the company operates in.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sure would be sweet if any site operated in any state in the U.S.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have exchanged 3-4 emails with their customer service reps over the past few days and am getting the run around, stock replies that avoid answering my questions, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

you need to get them on the phone for something this serious

[/ QUOTE ]

My concern is that I can not out talk someone with legal speak. Also, I want to get as much documented on email as I can. I have requested to be put in touch with someone of authority via email and they have yet to do so.

Who would I ask to speak with? If they give me some stock rap about 'the new law' and the way they interpret it (as in sorry we can't send you your money) what is my response?

[Mustbeblufin]

[ QUOTE ]

Who would I ask to speak with? If they give me some stock rap about 'the new law' and the way they interpret it (as in sorry we can't send you your money) what is my response?

[/ QUOTE ]

You will never convince any site that they are wrong on their interpretation of the laws. Their lawyers made a determination and you aren't going to change their minds. You best bet is someone receiving the money from outside the US and maybe you can even find someone on the boards who plays on Code to accept the money.

Good luck and I hope you have success getting your money back.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

how much is it?

how long did they give everyone in the usa to withdraw their money?

[flight2q]

Document what you can and report it to Casinomeister.

[MiltonFriedman]

I believe that the Palace Group may be operating from Kahnawake. If so, make a complaint and politely tell the Kahnawake Gaming Commission that this would never happen with a UK-approved operator .... That will get some action.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that the Palace Group may be operating from Kahnawake. If so, make a complaint and politely tell the Kahnawake Gaming Commission that this would never happen with a UK-approved operator .... That will get some action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you very much for this advice. I will do this tomorrow.

Any other advise from anyone is still very much apprecated. I want to have as many options/tools at my disposal as possible in order to get my money.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that the Palace Group may be operating from Kahnawake. If so, make a complaint and politely tell the Kahnawake Gaming Commission that this would never happen with a UK-approved operator .... That will get some action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently The Palace Group was under the control of 'Fairground Gaming Holdings' a UK company and then spun off their gaming operations to 'Seahouses Holdings Limited'.

Prior to learning this I obtained info re: main company officers at Fairhouse but now that info is irrelevant.

Anyone know how I can go about finding out who are the core people in charge at Seahouses Holdings Limited?

Also, do you think it would be worth it to contact the broker agencies that trade Seahouses? Any other related suggestions?

Code Poker put a bug up my ass. I want to shove something much more substantial up theirs (as well as get my money back lol).

[chrisptp]

I'm going through a similar situation with TonyG Poker, although they're just stalling instead of saying no. I've been exchanging emails with support for 2 months and all I get are form letter replies.

When GamesGrid shut down, all accounts were migrated to TonyG, which is now on IPoker. IPoker doesn't allow US accounts, so my account and my money are in limbo... anyone else?

[robinsons]

www.companieshouse.gov.uk (http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk) will give you info on all UK registered limited companies.
fwiw there is no company on there under the name 'Seahouses Holdings'

[FreeBeer]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that the Palace Group may be operating from Kahnawake. If so, make a complaint and politely tell the Kahnawake Gaming Commission that this would never happen with a UK-approved operator .... That will get some action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, this is untrue though it may get some active response from Kahnawake. Paradise Poker, part of Sportingbet PLC and a UK-approved operator, owes me >5K USD and has so far refused to pay. They claim they have been advised by their attorneys not to pay US citizens nor to allow US citizens to transfer funds to other players, even if they are offshore and non-US citizens.

A lawsuit may not be profitable, yet it may be inevitable.

[MiltonFriedman]

I once offered to help people get paid immediately on their Neteller claims for X%, all I got back was a bunch of whining about 'Why should I pay to get my money back".

HOWEVER, IF you are willing to pay a % on a contingent basis, you could get some help.

(Same for other people from the US who "cannot" get paid because they are from the US. However, it would never be done for FREE.)

[chrisptp]

i'd certainly pay someone a % to bug the useless folks over at TonyG Poker for me.

[Barrin6]

Bump,
this sucks.

Thank god I stayed away from sites that had at least a hint of Prima' blood.

[bkholdem]

I want to let everyone know that my sitation with Code Poker/The Palace Group has been successfully resolved!

[DMoogle]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to let everyone know that my sitation with Code Poker/The Palace Group has been successfully resolved!

[/ QUOTE ]
Excellent. Details?

[chrisptp]

tonygpoker still refuses to pay me my 3k. runaroundathons from support.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
tonygpoker still refuses to pay me my 3k. runaroundathons from support.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got a satisfactory resolution to my problem. It was a headache, but i did it.

You need to get above the front line support people and communicate with people who have actual power, actual decision making authority. Then you have to simply convince them that it is in their best interests to make things right by you.

Who owns Tony G poker? Who is the ultimate parent company? Who are the regulatory authorities? Who are the company officers? Who are their friends and business associates, or potential future business associates? Who are their investors? Who are their sponsors and advertisers? Who are their customers and potential future customers? Who are their competitors?

Operate from a pain/pleasure principle and make it more painful for them to not pay you than it is to pay you. I was originally quite pissed off (as you may have gathered). I was also willing to go to extra ordinary lengths to get satisfaction. Now I am at peace with the situation as the matter has been successfully resolved.

But you need to get to the people who have power and decision making authority. Dealing with the customer support reps who have preprogrammed responses to spit out and no authority to acutally DO anything is not going to help you.

Where there is a will, there is a way. Do you have the will to make this happen? How committed are you? Right now they have 3k in their pockets and are paying some college kids 10bucks and hour to cut and pasted "sorry, it's our policy" to your queries. Sounds like they have found a way to keep your money if you don't change your tactics.