Difficult Postflop Situations: Recognize and Accept Them

[derosnec]

Maybe a useful post, maybe completely wrong, maybe super duper obvious but what the heck. This is based on reviewing my PT db over my last gazillion hands.


3bet Pots Out of Position

A decent % of the time (with both made and unpaired hands) the flop is going to be gross (for your hand) and you have no idea what your opponent is going to do. Plus add in the fact (from my experience, maybe not yours) that opponents often shove against a c-bet in 3bet pots, and you end up in a lot of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

My best advice is to use what reads you have, analyze flop texture against opponent's range, and do alot of equity calcs in previous 3bet hands you have played that are stored in your PT db (basically, kiss your social life goodbye). Nonetheless, the decision-making process on the flop is not going to be fun. Recognize this fact and accept it.

You have a set OOP and Draw Completes on the Turn

This is where 100bb stacks are a pain in the ass. Because, if for example, you c-bet $5 into a $6 pot on the flop (50nl), got a caller, the pot is $16 on the turn and the flush draw completed. Now wtf do you do? You can bet again and if you don't get raised, you're looking at roughly a $35 to $40 pot on the river, which you can't fold really. And checking sucks. This is a tough spot. It comes up in our threads alot. Recognize it. Accept it. And then proceed to throw mouse against the wall (or at loved ones/family pets).

You have a set/two pair in Position Facing River Push

Backdoor draws got there, flush draw got there, or other fun stuff. Opponent was just calling all the way and then woke up on river. Tough spot. Recognize it. Accept it.

Conclusion

So, what's my point?

Who knows, but I will say that if you are in these spots, don't get down at yourself and think you suck at poker because you don't know what to do. You have to just tell yourself, "Okay, I'm in one of these bad spots again. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and with the help of Jesus and my magic 8 ball, I'll get through it without serious damage to my computer hardware." These tricky situations are especially tricky with 100bb stacks, which is one reason why position in NL cash is such a powerful thing. This is the life we've chosen. You don't like it? Go play 5bb SNGs or limit.

[bozzer]

helpful, thanks.

[Waingro]

This post tilts the hell out of me. I usually start cursing in the second example (sets oop) even before the turn is dealt.

[Go_BroKe]

good work!

[choccypie]

Thanks for the post, made me realise maybe I don't give myself enough credit sometimes /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Klopzi]

Each of the situations described are solvable when viewed in relation to:
1. Number of players in the hand.
2. Stack sizes
3. Pot size
4. Reads on Villain

Generally, 2 and 3 are the most important factors to consider before deciding to call, push or fold.

Also, take the time to think about how you'll react to different actions on the part of your opponent(s) before you need to make your decision. Once you know how you'll react to different situations, simply have the guts to follow through on your plan.

[Triggerle]

Nice post.

The first two I don't think you give up a lot of EV overall if you check more often, especially against the better players. The small EV loss (if any) is acceptable for me if it keeps me sane.

[gedanken]

[ QUOTE ]
This post tilts the hell out of me. I usually start cursing in the second example (sets oop) even before the turn is dealt.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, especially with bottom set. For me it's two pair. I swear I'm going to start open-folding flopped two pair from the big blind.

anything we can do to stay out of these situations in the first place? example 1, should we consider folding more often when 3bet out of position preflop?

[members_only]

Nice post, thanks

[BetweenTheLines]

[ QUOTE ]

Plus add in the fact (from my experience, maybe not yours) that opponents often shove against a c-bet in 3bet pots, and you end up in a lot of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a beginner but I recognized it too,seems like even the
passive players wake up in these spots and become aggressive.

[Panic__NL]

nice post, tyvm, made me realise that not all though spots are created by myself.

[kaz2107]

yayayyaya for me gettin in these spots numerous times EVERY session in the last 3 months. lol.

tha first one can be avoided by not calling lots of 3bets when oop tho so i dont get in that spot a ton.

[BoozeHound]

I think he gets in them by 3-betting from the blinds, not by calling 3-bets in EP. That's why I'm in those situations a fair amount at least. Obvious examples even if you're super tight are a whiffed AK, as well as KK,QQ on A-high board.

[ssdex]

I think after time it becomes easier to pinpoint villains ranges and make a logical decision even in very difficult spots---- especially on river shoves---- what hands could particular villain have played this way---- usually its not even close to the hand your afraid of---- but with a nitty reg or something or if a draw got there that makes sense, it can be a fold