Just lamely giving up on AK...damned pain

[Chomp]

Villain: 20/15/3/1500 hands. Very solid reg, surprised to see he is only just in the green over my sample on him. Definitely a thinking player.

Firstly, the table is full of fish and villain is the only opponent here I fear. Is there ever a case for just not bothering here at all? lol, probably not, but I said to myself afterward, "Why the hell tangle with the only decent player at the table??". Losing big pots to the only reg at the table in a non-nut situation is sinful IMO, so I am kinda torn on this question and it definitely influenced my post flop passivity.

Second, general comments on everything else please. I absolutely hate my line, but I just can't see a turn/river move that doesn't look like spew.

And yes, I considered calling river.


Thanks.

............................

Converter at Talking-Poker (http://www.talking-poker.com)

saw flop | <font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($51.00)
SB Hero ($50.25)
BB ($45.15)
UTG ($62.65)
UTG+1 <font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($51.50)</font>

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.75, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $5.25.

Flop (14.50) T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero bets $12.00, UTG+1 calls $12.00.

Turn (38.50) 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River (38.50) 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $18.00, 1 fold

[traz]

standard, you're not folding out whatever he has anyways

[jack492505]

I suck in these spots, but I think I take this same line. I don't think you can get him to fold after the flop. You told him you were going to play for stacks and he called anyway. If he's a thinking opponent he's not doing that without a hand that he's willing to felt. It's a weird line, but obviously don't call the river best you're getting is a chop and that's probably unlikely. Weird spot though interested to hear what others think.

[members_only]

Standard, except why bet so much on the flop?

You could just c/f the flop as well, especially given your worries about playing a big pot vs the only other decent player

[WarhammerIIC]

I'll c-bet about 90% of the flop I see, but this is one where I'll probably pass.

[yapee]

He most often has a pair here and from these most often TT-QQ, so you're probably beat like 90% of the time. Also if he's decent his $18 on the river looks like he's trying to sell you something, which you'd buy with an overpair UI.

[DennisGPunkt]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll c-bet about 90% of the flop I see, but this is one where I'll probably pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm... after representing such a strong hand and getting a call I think you have to c-bet here always, because thats the line AA would take. If he calls, ok, you are beat. But you won't win the hand at showdown. I think he has QQ/JJ here alot (and yes, i might would fire another barrel on the turn sometimes).

I do not think he has any kind of a drawing hand.

[corsakh]

Either FPS or your read is off.

You don't think that a thinking player would cold call suited connectors in UTG, call pot on the flop and bluff on the river, do you? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[monkeymaps]

yeah standard this is always QQ JJ or maybe 99
i prob dont c-bet but dont hate it.

[derosnec]

i'm checking this flop most of the time, and not just becaue he called your cbet. if he checks behind, then i'll bet any turn.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm checking this flop most of the time, and not just becaue he called your cbet. if he checks behind, then i'll bet any turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this line is solid, I should use this more myself vs certain opponents, would you c/c sometimes on the flop or is it always c/f?

[monkeymaps]

only thing I hate about not c-betting is it kind of turns your hand face up ie you have AK or TT and thats about it. unless you check here with AA KK.

but c-bet gets called buy alot of his range so just kind of a crappy spot.

FWIW if you check flop to me im always betting though cause there are so few strong hands you can be doing this with.

[traz]

I think the cbet is fine

[derosnec]

yeah checking turns our hand face up but most of our opponents suck at hand reading. this flop sucks though. they're not folding to a cbet on this flop enough times to make a cbet profitable. if you check and he checks behind, then you can reduce probability that he has a made hand/good draw. so, if turn is a blank, makes the draw, or brings an A or K (so basically, most of the deck), then your turn bet has a better chance of him folding.

i might be wrong here and can be convinced otherwise.

[traz]

It really depends what you think his preflop calling range I guess. If you think it's squarely QQ+, AK then it's a clear check.

If you think it's wider then I don't mind a cbet.

After thinking about this hand, it's probably a good check.

[Chomp]

Thanks for replies.

If villain has TT-QQ, is his preflop call wrong/bad? What does a good player do with TT-QQ here?

And I see the argument for not cb, but I don't think I agree heads-up. We would never chk AA/KK/QQ, and a strong cb might just occasionally fold out a pair/AK always. And I think a chk is just telling villain our hand.

That having been said, I think the concensus here is chk, so I'll definitely take that away from this thread.

And to the poster who asked about the cb size, I wanted it to look like a big hand that was scared of the 2 diamonds. Kind of an attempt to reinforce the notion I have AA/KK. Also Miller/Sklansey's concept "when in doubt about a bet/bet-size, bet a bit too much rather than a bit too little".