NL50: A9s in rr pot OOP. Lets do it by decison by decision

[Baintz]

I'm running bad, and resultingly playing pretty poorly recently, making bad plays left right and centre. Would love some advice here as my bad run is clearly affecting my thinking.

Villain is 26/23/3 over 40ish hands. He's been very active in CO and button - att. to steal is 45%.
Other than that no reads, he's pretty much picked up his pots pre or with c-bets.

I've been tight, have 3-bet him once before from BB and he folded.


Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $50.59
Hero (BB): $107.99
UTG: $65.05
CO: $50.00
BTN: $34.24

Preflop: Hero is dealt A/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $2.00</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, CO calls $5.00

I think I'm way ahead of his range pre, so opt to 3 bet. Does anyone prefer to call pre, planning on c/r a lot of flops instead?


Flop: ($14.25) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero ???</font>


Hmmm, so I hit, and am likely WA/WB. Betting here may fold out a lot of hands I beat, but if I check and he bets I hate calling and getting to the turn in these spots where I have no idea where I am.
A c/r turns my hand into a bluff obviously, but check/check wouldn't be so bad.

So, who bets and who checks?

[Pokerdemic]

If you are gonna 3bet there OOP, then I think you have to bet this flop and represent AK. I think taking the pot down now with TPNK is a good thing. What other flop were you hoping for (besides one with two clubs)? I bet $12.

[traz]

This is why 3betting with A9 really sucks

[jack492505]

I don't really particularly like the 3-bet, but I guess I don't 3-bet light enough, so I'm not sure. But like you said I would hate to call a bet on the flop and have no clue about the hand. B/F the flop if he calls I would be done with the hand.

[skibbel]

3-betting middle aces sucks. 3-betting a pair or a SC is much better, if you want to 3-bet loose.

[comfortably_numb]

As played I'd be happy to take the pot down now - bet between 10$ and 14$. If villain calls/raises I would be done with that hand. If he shoves I would think about calling, putting him on QQ or KK.

[Speedlimits]

c/c and c/r are both good options. If he's aggressive you can just c/c it down.

c/c&gt;c/r&gt;bet

[members_only]

Bet $10

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
c/c and c/r are both good options. If he's aggressive you can just c/c it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh you might pick up an extra bet but checking here i guess. pretty much anything that calls a flop bet you are behind.

hate passive lines like this but w/e
I prob just make standard c-bet here but there is some extra value though harder to play lines here.

[Baintz]

OK, the general consensus would be to bet the flop, which I agree with, I'd rather bet than check call.

Speedlimits, you advocated a c/r on flop. Why? Surely he folds all worse and calls with better. It makes the hand easier to play but is it most +EV?

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $50.59
Hero (BB): $107.99
UTG: $65.05
CO: $50.00
BTN: $34.24

Preflop: Hero is dealt A/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $2.00</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, CO calls $5.00

Flop: ($14.25) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $8.00</font>, CO calls $8.00

Turn: ($30.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero ???</font>

Betsize on flop OK? He's obviously not folding better aces, and a smaller bet may encourage a float from QQ/JJ who is seeing what I do on turn. I'd make the same bet with AK fwiw.

Is the only real option here check fold? What if he bets small when I check?
Any sort of bet pot commits me, so maybe bet small and hope he shoves QQ/JJ with a dimaond? Or is that just a foolish way to stack off to AK?

[MoP_86]

If you're gonna 3-bet with A9 at least do it in position.

[dmoney]

I bet here pretty much everytime. No matter what I 3 bet with. You give up way to much by checking cause you get bluffed a ton of the time. If he raises your flop bet you can decide if he's bluffing or if he's got you. Very rarely will you get bluff raised here imo. If he calls you kinda have to evaluate on the turn, i probably c/c turn as long as it's resonable bet. it's unlikely he's firing 3 barrels without an ace. And i probably fold river if he fires again. (You have to call turn if you check because sometimes villain is floating to bluff you on the turn cause he thinks you may have cbet without an ace.

P.s. 3 betting with A9o or anything less then AJo is pretty bad imo.

You are way better off 3 betting SCs 67s 89s etc etc cuase u won't get into situations like this where you eithe need to hit ur 3 outter or you're way ahead but with marginal hand oop when the pot can be easily stolen from you.

[bung]

bet/fold here. You have to double barrel to rep the hand you're trying to rep.

[Disconnected]

What you do on the turn kind of depends on your reason for betting the flop. If you were betting the flop to steal the pot, then I think you should c/f the turn. If you thought that you had value, then you should be willing to play for stacks here because the pot is now roughly the same size as villain's remaining stack. In that case, I would c/c the turn and bet the river if he checks behind.

[dmoney]

Terrible bet size imo. For the exact reason of what ended up happening.

You bet small which looks super weak (Which u are) he calls with ANY hand hoping to steal on turn. scare card comes, you check, he fires, you fold.

OR scare card comes, you bet he shoves, you fold. I take line 2 over line 1 however it's still such a [censored] spot to be in. Def -ev to be getting into these spots often.


Someone said Terrible bet size imo. For the exact reason of what ended up happening.

You bet small which looks super weak (Which u are) he calls with ANY hand hoping to steal on turn. scare card comes, you check, he fires, you fold.

OR scare card comes, you bet he shoves, you fold. I take line 2 over line 1 however it's still such a [censored] spot to be in. Def -ev to be getting into these spots often.

if you really feel you ever need to 3 bet a9s do so in pos. a hell of a lot easier to play then and its so much easier to keep the pot small when your behind.

[Baintz]

[ QUOTE ]
What you do on the turn kind of depends on your reason for betting the flop. If you were betting the flop to steal the pot, then I think you should c/f the turn. If you thought that you had value, then you should be willing to play for stacks here because the pot is now roughly the same size as villain's remaining stack. In that case, I would c/c the turn and bet the river if he checks behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this sums up my turn situation very well. I'd decided that I was going to play for stacks on the turn, but didn't want to give a free card to any lone diamond. If I shove I only get called when beat, so I bet weak, looking to call a shove. I was obviously aware he could well shove with a better ace, but once I'd decided to stack off here, I went for this option.

Thoughts??

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $50.59
Hero (BB): $107.99
UTG: $65.05
CO: $50.00
BTN: $34.24

Preflop: Hero is dealt A/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $2.00</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, CO calls $5.00

Flop: ($14.25) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $8.00</font>, CO calls $8.00

Turn: ($30.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $12.00</font>, <font color="red">CO raises all-in to $35.00</font>, Hero calls $23.00

River: ($100.25) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $100.25 ($2 Rake)

[traz]

this hand is disgusting to look at

[Micro Donk]

maybe i do 3bet too much with hands like this against active raisers... is the better play just to call preflop, as your hand is still ahead of their range? or just muck it as it would be somewhat difficult to play postflop?

[derosnec]

On the flop, there are not alot of flush draws he can have assuming that he is rational and has a tighter 3bet calling range pf. So, really only KQs, maybe JTs/T9s/76s/56s. I think he throws away KJs and lower and QJs and lower preflop. So, really only like 5 combos of flush draws.

Now I can see him also calling on the flop with a pocketpair (since people hate folding in 3bet pots) and then pushing his diamond flush draw on the turn.

So, this is the range I give him, which you have odds to call his shove against. Actually he would probably play his Ax hands stronger on the flop. So I think your turn call is even more profitable than the range below would suggest (which is 40/60 below):

AQo-ATo
AQs-A8s
QcQd,QdQh,QdQs
JcJd,JdJh,JdJs
TcTd,TdTh,TdTs
9c9d,9d9h,9d9s
KdQd
JdTd
Td9d
7d6d

edit: actually i should include 33/88 in his range since people will play sets like this even on drawy flops.

[bozzer]

pf, you are not way ahead of a 3b calling range, which is quite important when you build the pot OOP. If he's going to fold a lot it's probably ok though.

On the flop we are pretty much WA/WB, but I quite like just turning our hand into a bluff with a cbet. if he sticks around i give him credit for a better ace and get the heck out of dodge.

[Arcturus]

I'll be honest, I don't like playing A9 OOP against a player that has stats close to that of a really good player. 26/23/3 is very borderline to that. If he has an AF of 3 and he is preflop raising almost every hand he's getting involved in, usually he represents himself as pretty knowledgeable. A9 is not going to get a lot of value out of him, especially if you hit a flush on the flop. I would tend to fold this preflop.

My question here on the turn is that if you decided to play for stacks, why wouldn't you just open-push? You would gain so much in fold equity by doing so. Villian may have called your flop bet because it was so weak. Also, the turn flush card may scare HIM enough to fold. I would be happy taking this down right then and there if I could.