This hand is so weird...

[Snozynoze]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $11.80
BB: $6.80
UTG: $9.90
MP: $35.50
CO: $13.75
Hero (BTN): $10.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10,

<font color="blue"> Ok, this is one of those spots i'm just playing the button. Bringing in a suited ace for a raise, punish the limpers and what not. </font>

<font color="red">Hero raises to $0.55</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $1.00</font>, 2 folds,

<font color="blue"> Ok, so i'm heads up here againts a guy who is 65/21, but only after 34 hands. He hasn't really done anything special, but he mini raised me, and i'm not gonna give up freflop to a mini raise. Lets see a flop. </font>

Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($2.25) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
BB checks,

<font color="blue"> This guy isn't tricky, and he folds to a c-bet 66% of the time, and he's opened the door for weakness, and it could be a trap, i'm unsure. Maybe i should check here? I dunno, weird situation, a little aggression should help me decide. </font>

<font color="red">Hero bets $1.80</font>, BB calls $1.80

Turn: ($5.85) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets all-in for $4.00</font>, Hero...

<font color="blue"> Ok, so he's called the flop bet, an ace has hit the turn, and he's all in for less then the pot. He called the flop, and now we're here on the turn with top pair crap kicker. Whatever he has, he's played it quite strange. AQ? QQ? AK? I really havn't a clue. It all goes back to preflop. But can i really fold to a mini raise preflop? Maybe with hands like weak aces, i should.

What's my river move? Tell me everything wrong with this hand, because i got to admit i felt like a blind guy in the desert this hand. </font>

[UFGatorGuy]

I check behind on flop, his reraise preflop scares the [censored] out of me and I don't feel the need to rep a hand I don't have. As played, on the turn, it sure looks like an AJ-AK hand.. or something even better. I think I can find a fold here.

[bigjoker66]

As played, I would call and say NH to his set of queens. Thats what always seems to happen to me in this situation.

He most likely has a stronger Ace than you, but he could be using the Ace as a scare card to get you out. I think you have odds here to call, but expect to loose.

It would probably be best to check behind on the flop. If you did that would you fold the turn to a pot bet?

BTW villain is all in on the turn so no-matter what you do there is no river action.

[Rednas]

Fold to his reraise preflop.
If he has an ace, he has you dominated.
If he has a high pocket pair, the ace will scare him and you can't get much money out of him.

[M.Goodcat]

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As played, I would n't call and say NH to his set of queens.

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[choccypie]

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Fold to his reraise preflop.


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[Neku]

The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[bknollenberg]

[ QUOTE ]
The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[4_2_it]

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[ QUOTE ]
The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy to take potshots, do you anything original to add?

[+EV]

I don't mind your logic but think about this. All of your logic is second level, like if Villain is thinking this, then I will do this.

Hint: Villain is not thinking. He is an idiot. Play straight forward poker, and profit. Make a hand and value bet.

+EV

Edit: PS he has two pair and he called on the flop be cause it is Ax. You are so behind you must fold turn.

[BishopsFinger]

fold preflop.
check flop.
fold on turn as played.

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell a ban coming.

[XHitman014]

Especially since the post was right on target.

Every forum is not BBV.

[Snozynoze]

I thought about this hand last night after i posted, and i decided that a 3-bet preflop, even a weak one like this, should get me to let go of weak suited aces.

In the end, he turned over Aj when i called, so i hit a six on the river to teach him a lesson of making that call on the flop.

Interesting hand, and for once, i got to charge someone else for the lesson. And since it's now something i've learned, they won't get a chance to even out the luck of that river six.

[Neku]

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[ QUOTE ]
The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, he's right of course, it's straight out of PNLHE (I was reading it during lunch at work, and I did think OMG now I see what I did wrong all those times) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Having reached the more advanced chapters at this time, I can also add that a stack-to-pot ratio of 3 is clearly no good for a hand like A6s, and that you should be aiming for a SPR of &gt; 20 !!

[HighOctane]

mmm...fold.

[bknollenberg]

[ QUOTE ]
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The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy to take potshots, do you anything original to add?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, an elementary school english grammar workbook.

[bknollenberg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell a ban coming.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's a joke, chill out. as Neku said, that was basically lifted verbatim from the book. it was all fun and games until your nostrils flared up.

but if you all feel i need to add something original, i will. i think that the hand was played poorly. i think that calling the re raise preflop was a mistake, and that trying to bluff at a 3 bet flop was a mistake also, especially given how short the BB was. i would fold the turn, as there is really nothing that you are beating except a non-nut flush draw or open ended, but those wouldn't re-raise preflop. i really see not one single hand that you are beating here that would re-raise preflop. if he had KK or JJ or something like that, why would he flat push when an ace hits?

i can see justification in calling pf based on position and the fact that you're getting good odds since he min-raised. however, if you're willing to call there, you are calling basically knowing that if an A hits and he leads out, you are going to either make a crying call or have to fold, and that if you flop anything else (including a 6) and he leads out, you are likely beat as well.

one serious question to consider is, would you call the min raise if you had A6o instead of A6d? i know it's seems trivial and basic, but people still overvalue suited cards (that's not to say they aren't valuable, but it's situational and this situation is not a profitable enough spot to call).

so pf, i could see either argument for calling the minraise. after that, don't lead out at the flop, see how he responds to the A hitting and if possible check it down or let him bet small at it so you can maybe justify a cheaper call to see what you were really up against. otherwise, tosss it.

sorry if i offended anyone. that was just too ldo pnl ftw.

[Snozynoze]

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The hand is not so weird, but you played it all wrong.

Assuming you could stack him, you're getting about 10:1 preflop (,55 to win 5,80), which is too thin for a speculative hand like A6s. But let's say your odds to hit that flush draw or better are 8:1.

The pot is 2 $, the effective stack size is 5,80. Flop comes and misses you completely. You're not committed, and you don't WANT to be committed either, since the flop missed you.

If you're not committed and you don't want to be, you should check. Instead, you're investing 1/3 of your stack in a bluff, which is precisely what you should avoid. Turn comes, and he reveals the strength of his hand. Even here, you should fold. Either he has an A with a better kicker, or he made a set.

Your biggest mistake was not to control the pot on the flop, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I HAS READ PROFESHENAL UNLIMITED HOLD THEM AND I IS NOW FULL OF ORIGINAL POKER ADVICE!!1!oneoneoneoneone

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell a ban coming.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's a joke, chill out. as Neku said, that was basically lifted verbatim from the book. it was all fun and games until your nostrils flared up.

but if you all feel i need to add something original, i will. i think that the hand was played poorly. i think that calling the re raise preflop was a mistake, and that trying to bluff at a 3 bet flop was a mistake also, especially given how short the BB was. i would fold the turn, as there is really nothing that you are beating except a non-nut flush draw or open ended, but those wouldn't re-raise preflop. i really see not one single hand that you are beating here that would re-raise preflop. if he had KK or JJ or something like that, why would he flat push when an ace hits?

i can see justification in calling pf based on position and the fact that you're getting good odds since he min-raised. however, if you're willing to call there, you are calling basically knowing that if an A hits and he leads out, you are going to either make a crying call or have to fold, and that if you flop anything else (including a 6) and he leads out, you are likely beat as well.

one serious question to consider is, would you call the min raise if you had A6o instead of A6d? i know it's seems trivial and basic, but people still overvalue suited cards (that's not to say they aren't valuable, but it's situational and this situation is not a profitable enough spot to call).

so pf, i could see either argument for calling the minraise. after that, don't lead out at the flop, see how he responds to the A hitting and if possible check it down or let him bet small at it so you can maybe justify a cheaper call to see what you were really up against. otherwise, tosss it.

sorry if i offended anyone. that was just too ldo pnl ftw.

[/ QUOTE ]

To answer your question about folding A6s or A6o, i am well aware that A6 is junk, suited or otherwise.

At a table of limpers though with the button, i like the raise, and it being suited is nice, but i am not under the thought that it's a great hand.

Funny enough, i'm not looking to hit a flush with this hand.

Crazy, i know. Most of the time, it's not going to hit, and the times it does, it's tough to get paid. I'm playing position only here, but folding to a mini raise seems weak.

The honest thing though is, here, i should have went ahead and put it down, weak as it is in this situation because this hand makes pretty much nothing.

What i'm really looking for is a flop like A62 and getting an AK or even AQ to stack off.

Sure, picking up top pair and a flush draw would be nice, or even a flop like Q62 with the queen and 2 suited in my favor. I'd be more willing to get it in there. (favorite over an over pair or even a hand like AQ and might even get fold equity from a push.

No, i am way past the stages of pretty suited cards, but that doesn't mean i don't want a flush, i'm looking for either combo draws or a two pair hand in pos.

What i learned from this hand though, is it's not going to happen enough to make it a profiable sitution againts a mini bet.

Now 64 suited, that's a different hand, and those two pretty suited cards i will play and fold their non suited counterparts.

[RedBarracuda]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about this hand last night after i posted, and i decided that a 3-bet preflop, even a weak one like this, should get me to let go of weak suited aces.

In the end, he turned over Aj when i called, so i hit a six on the river to teach him a lesson of making that call on the flop.

Interesting hand, and for once, i got to charge someone else for the lesson. And since it's now something i've learned, they won't get a chance to even out the luck of that river six.

[/ QUOTE ]

what call on the flop?

[Aceium]

When you call his 3bet preflop, try putting him on a range. Something like (AA-77, AKs-ATs, AKo-AJo, KQ-QJ)

I'm not sure how accurate that is given villan's previous actions and stats, but it's a good start. When he calls the flop bet, you can narrow it down a little bit. When the ace comes on the turn and he stacks in, I think it's pretty clear that you are beat.

[RedBarracuda]

oops. sry. i missed something so I posted that "what call on flop" thing.. plz disregard..