Double barreling

[orange]

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd write a little something.

On Double Barreling:

This is a concept not widely used in uNL or even SSNL. It is a very common play in MSNL+, where the aggression is much higher and more frequent than those games that we play. It can be an effective play used in many different manners.

What is Double Barreling?
Double Barreling is exactly that. Firing two barrels. The purposes can be very many- from pure bluffing against a suspected float or semi-bluffing with a nice draw, the double barrel is effective.

When double barreling:
-We mix our ranges so that when we bet the turn after raising PF/betting the flop, our hand is NOT always the nuts/strong hand. Our ranges are wider and therefore harder to read.
-Along with that, we gain more action to when we DO actually have a hand.
-When applied correctly to certain players, we either dictate the action and set ourselves odds in which we would not have recieved (when double barreling draws) and enable ourselves another chance at winning the pot other than improving.

Some examples of double barreling:

(Assume all situations are 100BBs/6max).

The first and very standard one:

You open xx in the CO, BB calls, all else fold.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB checks, You bet, BB calls

Turn: A/K/paint
BB checks, You bet, he folds.

This is pretty much the standard double barrel line. We bet because the paint changed the board and therefore hand values. A villan should be much stronger if your betting (and repping) that paint card (and should fear a river bet if he calls). This is a very standard double barreling line used against all opponents.

As you move in limits, this common knowledge can be exploited (ie. calling much wider, bluff raising the double barrel because you know the opponent would double on this board nearly everytime, etc). But for now, this is still a nice play, and one that CAN be used for value too (ie. having AK on that such board and betting the turn).

Your raise A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/diamond.gif to 4xbb. You get a TAG caller on the button, all else fold.

(10bb)Flop: T/images/graemlins/club.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
You bet 6bb, he calls

(22bb)2/images/graemlins/club.gif
You bet 15bb, and he folds.

Notes: This is a common line used most against TAGgy regulars. This play is often used against more competent players as donkeys will continue to call with 77 and other marginal hands. As of PF/flop action, we can generally narrow TAG's hand range to a pp or some float. By double barreling, we generally fold out better hands against a very predicatable range. The TAG should be thinking "he knows that the turn changed nothing, why is he betting? He must be strong"

#3:

You raise A/images/graemlins/spade.gif7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Button calls, all else fold. He is an unknown player.

(10bbs)Flop: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif
You bet 8bb, He calls.

(26bb)Turn: 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif
You bet 17bb

There are a few reasons why double barreling on these boards is nice. You set your own price for a draw, one that your opponent may not have given you. You also enable yourself another chance to win the pot other than improving (as stated earlier, and also the definition of a semi-bluff). In CR, GP states that K high boards are excellent ones to double barrel on, simply because you are representing a ton of strength.

As stated earlier, your hand range is widened- many times, you would be double barreling with AK and the like in this spot. Try exchanging A/images/graemlins/spade.gif7/images/graemlins/spade.gif with AK/a set/QJ and you still may very well be double barreling. Mixing your strong hands with draws is an essential skill that evolves into 5th level thinking in the HSNL games (ie. bet sizing/etc).

Betting the turn makes river play GENERALLY pretty easy. If your opponent is one that will fold to aggression, you can triple barrel at times. If he's determined and willing to go far with this hand, you can c/f- (probably the best selection for those in uNL).

Another instance in which it might be nice to double with a draw is when you pick up a draw on the turn.

You open 6/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif someone calls.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
You bet, he calls

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/club.gif
You should bet

Again, it goes along with the semibluffing thing. Sorry, forgot to add this little snipit (edit), one thing I forgot.

There are many more instances in which double barreling is effective, these are just a few. Think for yourself on some other spots and share them.

[corsakh]

What is paint in example one?

[clowntable]

Nice post.
I do it in micro NL, probably too often.
I size my cbets a little lower than most people and thus get called by FDs more often. That's why I usually fire again on the turn if I know that player to be drawing to flushes often but being capable of folding.

[clowntable]

[ QUOTE ]
What is paint in example one?

[/ QUOTE ]
I assumed a facecard

[JROK777]

If you had 77 on a K54 rainbow flop, would you double barrell on a turned 10? Would you like firing twice on a King high flop w/a hand that has little chance to improve?
Good post by the way. Thanks.

[bigjoker66]

Thanks Orange!! Very helpful. Lots of chasers in micro though I tend to get called a lot if I try to double barrel. But then again I'm still learning.

Corsakh:
Paint is any face card.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
If you had 77 on a K54 rainbow flop, would you double barrell on a turned 10? Would you like firing twice on a King high flop w/a hand that has little chance to improve?
Good post by the way. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather not double barrel hands with decent showdown value. By doubleing there, I'm really turning 77 into a complete bluff. I would rather c/c the turn (and suspect villan is floating) and check the river. I would much rather double barrel with a hand that has no showdown value.

[traz]

I think double barreling is somewhat of an art. It's hard to come up with any hard and fast rules for it

[munkey]

tks "rider of rohan" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I like your comments about Kxx and the paint card -a good example for uNL IMHO.

I should probably do this more - and rather than checking an 'overcard' turn when I actually hit and inducing by c/calling a bet - I should be betting the turn again - so when I double barrel it looks the same.

Vs fishy players that float the flop with weak holdings is double barreling the turn [to make them fold their crap and less likely to call our fcbets later on] worth doing at all or occasionally? Or just target TAGs/people hat can fold with defined ranges?

[Willem]

A kind of villain I encounter a lot at 50NL calls your flop bet always, and folds to your turn bet if he doesn't have a good hand.

I think it's good to double barrel these players a lot.

[kaz2107]

awsome post. very good read.

[bozzer]

thanks orange.

i'm not convinced about auto-firing in the final example though.

[Check_The_Nuts]

orange, I hate the 4th example. Definitely bad to bet there with double gutter+backdoor flush draw. If dude's aggro he's gunna push fairly often and a lot of hands just improved (like 88/T8). Mind you if he's calling the flop with hands like T8 and he's a tag he's more likely to fold the turn, but I hate betting there cuz some of the time ur gunna get shoved on with 14 outs and not be able to call, [censored] :/

All the other hands are pretty standard for me. The AK on the 88x2r board I find I have to triple barrell somewhat often versus some regulars....versus guys who are obviously playing back a lot I dunno if I like bet/bet/bet cuz they just don't give up (thinking of a specific villian who I wanted to strangle lol....)

sucks I figured out the others like 3 months ago :/ on my own....

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
orange, I hate the 4th example. Definitely bad to bet there with double gutter+backdoor flush draw. If dude's aggro he's gunna push fairly often and a lot of hands just improved (like 88/T8). Mind you if he's calling the flop with hands like T8 and he's a tag he's more likely to fold the turn, but I hate betting there cuz some of the time ur gunna get shoved on with 14 outs and not be able to call, [censored] :/

All the other hands are pretty standard for me. The AK on the 88x2r board I find I have to triple barrell somewhat often versus some regulars....versus guys who are obviously playing back a lot I dunno if I like bet/bet/bet cuz they just don't give up (thinking of a specific villian who I wanted to strangle lol....)

sucks I figured out the others like 3 months ago :/ on my own....

[/ QUOTE ]

T8 and tag dont really mix.

I would expect him to raise sets and 2p on the flop nearly always if he's tag.

instead, as in the second example, i would think he either has a draw or mid pair or a weak tp or soemthing

[Check_The_Nuts]

the example is rlly general orange. I guess he rarely has an overpair cuz of no RR preflop and there aren't a ton of strong hands he's calling the flop with unless he's intending to float. At the same time I've tried check/raising all in a similar spot blind vs button and get snapped by like QTo. In that case I wouldn't think the guy was folding to a turn bet either....

I'm guessing if you were IP you would never bet the turn there. Like if hand had went villian bets we call, and then he checks the turn...

edit: I guess my point is this situation doesn't come up that often because standard tags don't cold call very often/play any pots without the initiative preflop.

[+EV]

Great post orange.

If I have been forced by a thinking player to fold the turn several times (I cbet flop even though I miss and check turn unimproved, they bet, I fold) I will start to mix my play up a little. One way is to double barrel. Villains are happy to get out of the way when they think you will only bet turn with a made hand. This mixes up our play and makes us less easy to read.

Another very effective tool is to use the turn check raise with a strong hand to balance out the times we use bet/bet/bet lines and times where we miss the turn and check.

+EV

[wrkingtobegreat]

Great post orange, I just recently started a thread whose purpose was discussing double and triple barreling. Very informative, thank you.

[jjb108]

It's helpful to set PAHud to display the fold to flop bet, fold to turn bet, and fold to river bet stats. You can ID floaters and other double barrel candidates this way. I have this as combined stat 3 on my HUD.

[choccypie]

Very helpful post, ty ^^