View Full Version : Do you push here with TPSK?
jerryf1914
08-19-2007, 10:39 PM
villian is your standard donk 50/30
Ultimate Bet - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))
SB: $3.18
Hero (BB): $9.65
UTG: $5.71
MP: $14.68
CO: $2.14
BTN: $14.02
Preflop: Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 Players)
2 folds, CO calls $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, SB folds, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.35) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $0.30</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $0.30
Turn: ($0.95) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $0.70</font>, Hero???
DaycareInferno
08-19-2007, 10:42 PM
why would you want to push? you still have almost your entire stack behind you with tp2k in an unraised pot. i would lead out the turn though.
raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn? too simple?
filsteal
08-19-2007, 11:17 PM
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raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn
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Lego05
08-20-2007, 12:11 AM
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raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn
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Pushing would be terrible.
marvin_1935
08-20-2007, 12:51 AM
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do you lead turn here w/ TP2K?
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yes
jerryf1914
08-20-2007, 01:31 AM
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raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn? too simple?
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you raise pf with kqo out of the bb?
jerryf1914
08-20-2007, 01:56 AM
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yes, all day
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why would you want to set yourself up to play oop like that?
PinkMartini
08-20-2007, 01:58 AM
Yeah seriously, you have potentially two people to play against oop.
shoxbb6
08-20-2007, 01:58 AM
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yes, all day
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why would you want to set yourself up to play oop like that?
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Because you have the best hand?
jerryf1914
08-20-2007, 02:01 AM
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yes, all day
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why would you want to set yourself up to play oop like that?
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Because you have the best hand?
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you don't have the best hand vs 2 opponents
Kasane
08-20-2007, 02:27 AM
You usually have the best hand against 2 50VPIP guys when they limp -- and the times you don't you'll still get the pot enough on the flop or after if you raise pf and take the initiative. You don't mention what the other player's stats were.
I don't mind checking your option pf either against some opponents, just requires a different post flop plan.
ryang
08-20-2007, 02:32 AM
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raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn
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Pushing would be terrible.
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shoxbb6
08-20-2007, 02:45 AM
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yes, all day
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why would you want to set yourself up to play oop like that?
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Because you have the best hand?
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you don't have the best hand vs 2 opponents
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Against two bad limpers you do 99% of the time
jerryf1914
08-20-2007, 02:54 AM
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yes, all day
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why would you want to set yourself up to play oop like that?
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Because you have the best hand?
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you don't have the best hand vs 2 opponents
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Against two bad limpers you do 99% of the time
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i'm not following you here...my equity is 45% vs 2 random hands
shoxbb6
08-20-2007, 03:49 AM
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Against two bad limpers you do 99% of the time
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i'm not following you here...my equity is 45% vs 2 random hands
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So your hand crushes their limping range and you have the best hand here nearly all of the time, why wouldn't you raise?
DistilledWater
08-20-2007, 04:08 AM
Will either of them fold preflop to a raise? If the answer is yes then you should be raising. Yes you have 45% equity against 2 randoms but if you can make it heads up with one of their limping ranges then you have +equity. I would raise larger than a standard raise seeing as how you will be playing the pot oop. When you take this line and flop TpSk you must keep the initiative on the flop and turn. Bet the flop and bet the turn. If he is a standard donk, he will call rather than reraise. When you check he is inclined to bet. That is just how people play at that level. Your turn check looks too much like a missed flop C-bet.
shoxbb6
08-20-2007, 04:15 AM
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Will either of them fold preflop to a raise?
[/ QUOTE ]Even if they never fold you should still raise here.
Dan Bitel
08-20-2007, 09:34 AM
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i'm not following you here...my equity is 45% vs 2 random hands
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but you're only putting in 33% of the cash.....
Eric Yang
08-20-2007, 09:38 AM
why'd you check turn, it's not like it was even a scare card. Keep betting.
I put him on a Q lower kicker (maybe two pair) although I can be full of [censored]. still, pushing is terrible whether you have him beat or not. If you push he'll call with two pair and if he has tppk he'll just fold... either way its bad.
Not raising KQ from every position is a big leak imo
shark_fishin
08-20-2007, 10:11 AM
lead turn, fold to re-raise
cubase
08-20-2007, 10:14 AM
With 50/30 opps, I'm raising pre-flop. AK/AQ would have probably raised, so if a K or Q falls, I'm winning.
Many good things can happen by raising here:
1) I can take down the pot pre-flop.
2) I can get heads-up against one opponent with a strong hand.
3) With 1 or two callers, I can c-bet many favorable flops and take the pot down, even if I miss.
4) If I hit a K or Q, my hand is likely to be best, and a weaker K/Q may call me down. Imagine Q72 flop. QJ, QT and maybe even Q9s might call me down.
5) Raising from the blinds with more than TT+, AK is good for my image.
6) I can flop a monster KQ2 flop and because the pot is raised, I might be able to extract even more value from 2nd best hands.
7) I can flop a monster KKx flop, and pick up even more dough from something like KJ.
8) I can flop a straight draw and lead it.
9) I can flop the nut straight and get paid off by many two-pair hands.
In short, not raising KQ here against two loose players is giving away money. By not raising, I'm playing hit to win.
Lead turn, fold to big raise.
As played, you make a difficult decision for yourself. Is he leading out with 78 or just a crappy Q? Much easier to lead turn and fold to raise.
Now you have to play a guessing game and your reads have to come into play. Does he lead turns only with 2 pair+? Does he lead turns *anytime* someone leads flop and checks turn? Does he bet weak pairs on the turn? He leads for almost pot? What does it mean?
By raising pre-flop, you narrow your opponents range which also helps to make better decisions. Consider that. You can even experiment by choosing a couple of hands to raise from the blinds that AREN'T TT+, AK/AQs and get a feel for playing them OOP.
shark_fishin
08-20-2007, 10:16 AM
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Not raising KQ from every position is a big leak imo
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disagrea, KQos is marginal in blinds and UTG, KQs is a better hand for raising in these possitions. its fine to raise it or fold it either way.
You suggest folding KQo UTG? We'll just agree to disagree.
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