Why Online poker get warns letter from the state Utah?

[Tofu_boy]

They are not on the list of 11 states.

http://www.gambling911.com/Utah-Online-Poker-080707.html

Utah Warns Online Poker Players
The state of Utah has been sending out letters to online poker players warning they could be in violation of state laws.

A grand jury in Salt Lake City, Utah, charged seven people and four companies with multiple felonies related to processing credit cards for gambling Web sites this spring.

The defendants are accused of helping gambling sites process US $150 million in payments from U.S. bettors, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

Charged in the indictment are Baron Lombardo, 46; Richard Carson-Selman, 51; Henry G. Bankey, 49; Francisco Lombardo, 52; Count C. Lombardo, 43; and Kimberlie Lombardo, 43, all of Las Vegas, Nevada; and Tina I. Hill, 32, of Sandy, Utah, and Las Vegas.

Companies facing charges are CurrenC Ltd., also known as CurrenC WorldWide Ltd., based in the British Virgin Islands; Gateway Technologies LLC, based in Draper, Utah; Hill Financial Services Inc., based in Draper, Utah, and Las Vegas.

The state has since received customer names and addresses from these companies of those online poker players residing in Utah.

In 2005, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and 28 other attorneys general wrote to U.S. Trade Representative Rob Portman calling for a greater states' voice in future trade talks following a ruling that favored the Caribbean nation of Antigua's policy on Internet gambling.

"Antigua has no business trying to write Utah's gambling laws," Shurtleff said at the time. "The Trade Representative needs to know that we have too much at stake to remain silent."

Antigua went to the WTO claiming the Americans were in violation of a trade agreement where the United States had in 1993 signed off on cross-border supply of gambling and betting services. And Utah's prohibition against gambling was a central part of Antigua's argument. The WTO found in favor of Antigua and called the US actions "protectionism" since a law passed late last year exempts horse betting.

Utah, however, does not permit any forms of gambling or a state lottery. The state itself is likely in compliance with the WTO decision.

[txbarbarossa]

The most pious state in the union. Next door to the most libertarian too which is super ironic.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
"Antigua has no business trying to write Utah's gambling laws," Shurtleff said at the time. "The Trade Representative needs to know that we have too much at stake to remain silent."

[/ QUOTE ]


For those that don't know, Utah is a child of it's parent, the United States. Much like classes, Utah inherits properties (laws) from it's parent class. Alas, poor Utah, you have no choice in this matter.

You, just like all the other states in the US, will be forced to follow federal law which Antigua is going to change with the help of the WTO (or is it the other way around?).

Either way pouting or stomping ur feet isn't going to help. So sad. Oh so sad.

[Skallagrim]

Also, no Court in Utah has ruled on whether a) Utah gambling laws apply to the internet and b) whether poker, being a game predominantly determined by skill, is "gambling" under Utah law.

Skallagrim

[oldbookguy]

I am only slightly aware of the case mentioned but does not that case deal with tranfering money for online sports betting.

My guess is also they are trying as do the feds to still claim there are federal laws against poker, I.E. The Wire Act.

This position seems to mirror that which is on the FBI web about online gambline in total.

obg

[MiltonFriedman]

This report, if true, would mean that the US Atty in Utah, during the pretrial phase of a Federal prosecution, had decided to totally taint the jury pool. That is possible, but unlikely.

It may be that he referred information to the State regarding a possible violation of Utah laws by players.


I would challenge Gambling911 to substantiate this story. If it is untrue, I likely will let folks who advertise there that it is cutting their throats for them.

HOWEVER, it seems more likely that sportsbettor were involved, if anyone was contacted, since the Defendants reportedly mostly handled uncoded transactions for sportsbooks.

IF, and it is a BIG IF, the names and addresses HAVE been circulated to various States, expect a deluge of letters around the time the football regular season opens.

[MiltonFriedman]

I kind of doubt it was poker specific, if it even happened as described.

In Nevada, Mormons received a special LDS decision to allow them to work in casinos.

[MiltonFriedman]

" Utah is a child of it's parent, the United States. ..."

Uh, thanks for clearing that up. You clearly know more than we do about US politics and international trade rules.

[MiltonFriedman]

If you are referring to Nevada as libertarian, the real irony is that Mormons basically run Nevada also, and, Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader (D-Nev), is a Mormon.

[txbarbarossa]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are referring to Nevada as libertarian, the real irony is that Mormons basically run Nevada also, and, Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader (D-Nev), is a Mormon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone should do a PH.D. thesis paper on how exactly this occurred.

[WLVRYN]

This post will add nothing to this thread, but a good friend of mine used to work for DirecTV. He said that Utah had the highest per household orders of pay-per-view porn of any state. I always got a kick out of that considering how conservative Utah was supposed to be.

[yahboohoo]

Serious readers will notice this story comes from gambling911.com. Need I say more?

In all likelihood, letters were sent to people who played at certain sites that are part of this investigation, and invariably, some of those people are going to be online poker players. Ergo, in G911 tabloid-speak: "Utah's online poker players targeted in investigation."

But at least they keep the fire stoked... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[daedalus]

http://ps3.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/66192/Reality%20Chec_qjpreviewth.jpg

#1 - There is NO mention of the word "POKER" in this case.

#2 - The Wire Act makes this type of sports betting transaction illegal.

#3 - This has no relevance to the online poker debate.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[TheRedRocket]

[ QUOTE ]
This post will add nothing to this thread, but a good friend of mine used to work for DirecTV. He said that Utah had the highest per household orders of pay-per-view porn of any state. I always got a kick out of that considering how conservative Utah was supposed to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

its really really unlikely that this type of information would be collected and I also seriously doubt that it's true. my guess would be that porn ordering is pretty evenly disbursed amongst state lines.

I spent some time searching the internet and didnt find anything at all

[kidpokeher]

[ QUOTE ]
The most pious state in the union. Next door to the most libertarian too which is super ironic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even more ironic when you consider Nevada passed a law against online gaming.

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This post will add nothing to this thread, but a good friend of mine used to work for DirecTV. He said that Utah had the highest per household orders of pay-per-view porn of any state. I always got a kick out of that considering how conservative Utah was supposed to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

its really really unlikely that this type of information would be collected and I also seriously doubt that it's true. my guess would be that porn ordering is pretty evenly disbursed amongst state lines.

I spent some time searching the internet and didnt find anything at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Iirc the factoid in question it was collected because there was a free speech trial on someone's porn and one of the turning points was "community standards" and the porn person proved that the claimed community standards were not the actual community standards on the basis of PPV porn (but when I heard it described it was talking about hotel PPV porn, not DirecTV).

[Lucky]

Well, if it is true Utah is sending letters, I'd imagine they'd be to online gamblers in general who'd associated with those in the case.

So it's odd he'd specify that solely online poker players were being targeted. Could this be an attempt to scare poker players into standing firm in the fight for internet gambling, rather than simply jumping on the wexler skill protection act bandwagon? Or is it possible the processor being charged only processed checks for poker, not sports because poker seemed safer?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The most pious state in the union. Next door to the most libertarian too which is super ironic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even more ironic when you consider Nevada passed a law against online gaming.

[/ QUOTE ]

They passed a law against unregulated Internet gambling, but they do allow for instate licensed Internet gambling. They've not issued any licenses yet.

If IGREA passes, Nevada will likely (I assume, or why else pass the licensing provision) license some Internet gaming sites to operate within its borders but allow access to any state that doesn't opt-out and to any nation without a ban.

[JRussell]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if it is true Utah is sending letters, I'd imagine they'd be to online gamblers in general who'd associated with those in the case.

So it's odd he'd specify that solely online poker players were being targeted. Could this be an attempt to scare poker players into standing firm in the fight for internet gambling, rather than simply jumping on the wexler skill protection act bandwagon? Or is it possible the processor being charged only processed checks for poker, not sports because poker seemed safer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like they're referring to the same letter this guy received (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=11196693&page=).

[WLVRYN]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This post will add nothing to this thread, but a good friend of mine used to work for DirecTV. He said that Utah had the highest per household orders of pay-per-view porn of any state. I always got a kick out of that considering how conservative Utah was supposed to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

its really really unlikely that this type of information would be collected and I also seriously doubt that it's true. my guess would be that porn ordering is pretty evenly disbursed amongst state lines.

I spent some time searching the internet and didnt find anything at all

[/ QUOTE ]

You can believe what you will, but my friend (who happens to be one of my best friends for that matter) managed payments to and contracts with all the various content providers for DirecTV for several years, so I tend to believe him over some random internet poster who doesnt "believe" it to be true. Also, there's no way in hell DirecTV would publish that information for public consumption either, so I dont doubt that its not freely available on the internet. I'll stop hijacking this thread now.

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
its really really unlikely that this type of information would be collected

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying I believe or don't believe the original poster but of course this information is collected. This would be one of the front line stats businesses like this would look at "product per household", "revenue per household", etc. broken down by market.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its really really unlikely that this type of information would be collected

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not saying I believe or don't believe the original poster but of course this information is collected. This would be one of the front line stats businesses like this would look at "product per household", "revenue per household", etc. broken down by market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, exactly. Any successful business wants to know who buys its product and what markets it is most popular in. Heck, the companies that make toilet paper keep statistics on how many squares you use on an average trip to the bathroom. For big companies, there's not much information out there that is left uncollected.