Tournament Circuit Basics

[RacersEdge]

I see alot of specifics mentioned - just wanting some basic info.

When satellites are mentioned at a tour stop, does that always mean in to the main event - never into a smaller buy-in tourney?

I always hear the games are good - is that just becasue there are a lot of gamblers floating around the country looking to gamble? Are the games much better than say in LV on a typical touristy weekend?

When do these good games usually start and end - like a couple days before and after the official dates of the event?

Is there a difference between the WPT event and a WSOP event as far as goodness of games? Should I lean toward one over the other?


What would be the most surprising thing to someone at their first WSOP/WPT event?

Feel free to add any useful comments not covered above.

[Bogeysave]

The usually run satellites for smaller events at the WSOP circuits. They will do like a $40 MTT with rebuys where everyone wins $500 or $1,000 in tournament chips. The tournament chips are then used for buy-ins into whatever event you choose.

They also run non-stop single table sattelites (sit & go's) that pay tournament chips to be used for the tournament buy ins. They usually pay top spot of the 10 players. Juice is pretty stiff on these.

Will be going to my first WPT stop at the end of this month for the Gulf Coast Poker Championship....looks like they will have the single tables going 24/7 as well but don't see any of the MTT's for lower buy in tourney's.

As far as why the cash games are better? They just are....don't pry too deep....just enjoy!

Bogeysave.

[pacecar86]

adding to the Bogey reply...the 2 WSOP-C's I played in Tunica also ran MTT mega's paying x number of seats into the $5K main event...the cash games were reasonably jacked up given the volume of gamboolers, and maybe a little better at the start than at the end. Towards the end, most players of the kind you want are probably broke and have gone home. WPT vs WSOP-C related cash games. Well, only a casual observation, during the overlapping WPT WPO and WSOP-C earlier this year in Tunica, the NL cash games around the WPO seemed much deeper than at the WSOP-C - didn't analyze.

oh, the rebuys mentioned by Bogey, don't remember them at Tunica, could have been running, however, the main thing to watch is each WSOP-C's set-up. They weren't standardized across all casinos in the 2006/2007 schedule. Each casino might offer different events/structures, STT/MTT megas, prelims, etc. So, check each venue/casino you are interested in and take a look at their WSOP-C schedule and structure sheets.....the kinda annoying thing last season was, not all of circuit event details/structures were published all at once. They were spread out across the calendar. Publication timing sorta varied from casino to casino.

[fatshark]

All venues are a little diff. from each other. I find that the WPT satellites are better due to bigger buy-ins for them. The WSOPC usually have $60, $120, and $540 sit-n-go's. The WPT (depending on which event, DBNA is a 15K, WPTC which is a 25K, etc change the sit-n-go and MTT Sats. dramatically). But in essence it usually means that the sats are higher in buyin due to bigger event buy-ins. The nice thing like the others are saying is that you receive the tournament buy-in chips which are good for any tournament (scheduled events, sit-n-go and MTT sats.) ALSO, you can usually find players standing in line to buy your tournament chips or if you walk over to a sit-n-go about to kick off and exchange your chips for cash as they are buying in anyway if you want the cash!

The biggest shock that I hear on table chat is the amount of pros playing the smaller events and even the sit-n-go's.
Especially in the $540 and 1k sit-n-go's; you may find you know an entire table of C and D list pros.

As far as the ring game action. The reason they are a little better than usual in locations other than Las Vegas is that local people figure they will give it a whirl when the WSOPC runs through lets say...Lake Tahoe and they don't have to travel too far and pay hotel..etc. This will loosen up all action as they are just "sightseeing" and "trying their hand."
You also have the "double up one time" theory. I MTT is about to start and a guy will play over agressive with any big pair even after a really bad board to try and double up to get into an event about to start. If you are patient you can snap these guys off with a flopped set etc. which normally they would probably fold in the same situation had they not been trying to "qualify" for the event starting.

This is just me rambling though, so hope it helps!

Fatshark

[RacersEdge]

Interesting with the pros in the SnGs - I had heard they were some of the fishiest games at an event.

Anyone have an opinion on the pros/cons of the WPT one in Biloxi and the WSOP one in Tunica at the same time at the end of this month? BAsically the same setup/goodness of cash games?

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have an opinion on the pros/cons of the WPT one in Biloxi and the WSOP one in Tunica at the same time at the end of this month? BAsically the same setup/goodness of cash games?


[/ QUOTE ]

The MGM/Mirage properties will have a better/more experienced staff than the Harrah's properties.

[CincyLady]

I've never played in Biloxi, but have in Tunica.

Cash games are very juicy there in Tunica (especially if you like limit games, the 4/8 half kill (or was it full kill? I really don't remember which way it was now) is really juicy), and there are several other casinos there where you can really clean up, since they have people that come there from as far north as Michigan to play there on a regular basis. Most of those people don't get much of a chance to play (live) poker, so the games are very soft in Tunica.

Based on my posts here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post11529364 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11529364&an=0&page=0#Pos t11529364)

Tunica is also cheaper from a room rate standpoint as well (max rate a night for the special rate while it lasts, is only $115 a night, with most nights a LOT lower), since you can no longer get the poker rate for the WPT event in Biloxi at the Beau for the Labor Day weekend at least, it's going to cost you less to go to the Tunica WSOP Circuit event.

Rooms in Biloxi, will cost you an arm and a leg (and your firstborn) to stay there right at the casino, if you plan on going labor day weekend.

For me, it was also cheaper airfare wise to fly into Memphis (the nearest airport) from Denver (currently Northwest Airlines has a rate of about $260 RT for direct flights between Denver and Memphis), for the Tunica WSOP event, as apposed to taking a connecting flight to Gulfport.

All in all, I'm finding it very +EV to goto the WSOP Circuit event in Tunica, and -EV for the WPT event in Biloxi.

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

Does the relative difference in property quality have any effect on your decision?

[CincyLady]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the relative difference in property quality have any effect on your decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

Johnny, I have to say yes, especially since I also know and have played in Tunica.

If say you had held the WPT event in Tunica at the same time, I'd be really faced with a hard choice, because I've stayed at the Gold Strike before, and it's a wonderful hotel, and the normal poker room is really great and the cash games there are juicy.

Biloxi on the other hand, is the great unknown, and I find it frustrating that I get a flyer in the mail about the event there, call for the special rate, and find it's all sold out when I wanted to go.

I know I'm not willing to spend almost 900 bucks for 3 nights stay to be able to go there, and when I play in events, I prefer to stay at the property in question if at all possible, as opposed to having to stay in a hotel 12 miles away to get a half way reasonable rate (and even then, the Hotel I originally booked there, was costing me almost 150 a night).

It'll cost me overall 3 times more with that factored in, to go fly and stay in Biloxi (then if I play at the WSOP Circuit event), plus as I mentioned, Biloxi, it's the great unknown.

With the WSOP event, I can stay in the property that's holding the event, for what is actually a LOWER price for a hotel I was going to stay at in Biloxi that was 12 miles away from the Beau.

Thought to consider for future WPT events, how about arranging hotel rooms at special rates at other area hotels (not needed to be a casino either), with shuttle service from them, to the property where the event is being held? I know the WSOP Circuit event in CB Iowa did this the beginning of this year, and IMO, that's what made it a huge turnout for them then.

I will say this for you guys, if you guys ever make it up to Blackhawk, Colorado (you'd have to do some really creative things here, since the max buyin amount allowed by the Colorado Gaming commission) is only 500 bucks for tourneys), you'd get people in droves here attending your event, as they are very thirsty for an event like yours.

Right now, the HPT is coming to Blackhawk in October, and I expect for it to be a sellout. Even they have to run qualifier satallites for entry into their ME as a creative way to raise the amounts needed for the buyins to their ME.

There is talk in the wind right now of the CGC upping the max bet here to 100 bucks, with the smoking ban going into effect as of Jan 1, 2008 for all casino's here, which in effect would raise the limits on the buyins for the Tournaments as well. Thus, you might want to keep your eye on that just in case.

Edit: One last thought here, I will say Kudo's to you guys for hooking up with the LIPSTour for the Ladies events you have, it's what drew me the first time to your event in Tunica a few years ago.

[CincyLady]

One more thing too Johnny, of things the WPT has going for it, if I was wanting to play in a ME event outside of Vegas, I would pick yours then, because of 2 reasons.

1) If I made it to the final table, I'd be on TV, as opposed to the WSOP events, which are no longer televised.

2) So far you've not had a woman win your final table, and I (along with thousands of other women) would love to be the first.

However, I used up all my vacation time for this year, so there is no way I can play in either ME.

So, it is IMO, the smaller one and two day events held over the weekend and especially holiday weekends, that affect the choices of players like me as well on where we'll play.

Edit: I just sent you a PM Johnny, click on the My home link at the top of the page to get to it (since I think you're still kind of new to this forum).

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
The usually run satellites for smaller events at the WSOP circuits. They will do like a $40 MTT with rebuys where everyone wins $500 or $1,000 in tournament chips. The tournament chips are then used for buy-ins into whatever event you choose.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Tahoe Circuit didn't have anything like that. The lowest MTT was $300, and even the lowest SNG was $60.

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have an opinion on the pros/cons of the WPT one in Biloxi and the WSOP one in Tunica at the same time at the end of this month? BAsically the same setup/goodness of cash games?


[/ QUOTE ]

The MGM/Mirage properties will have a better/more experienced staff than the Harrah's properties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe. The WSOP Circuit has a group of travelling dealers that lends consistency to their tournaments. Although not every dealer was a travelling dealer, I thought the Tahoe Circuit event was well-run.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have an opinion on the pros/cons of the WPT one in Biloxi and the WSOP one in Tunica at the same time at the end of this month? BAsically the same setup/goodness of cash games?


[/ QUOTE ]

The MGM/Mirage properties will have a better/more experienced staff than the Harrah's properties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe. The WSOP Circuit has a group of travelling dealers that lends consistency to their tournaments. Although not every dealer was a travelling dealer, I thought the Tahoe Circuit event was well-run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was refering more to the floor staff. I haven't been aroudn the circuit for a couple of years to see how the dealers are these days. I know Johnny is on my short list of people I would want to direct a tournament for me.

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

TY, TYVM

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]

If say you had held the WPT event in Tunica at the same time, I'd be really faced with a hard choice, because I've stayed at the Gold Strike before, and it's a wonderful hotel, and the normal poker room is really great and the cash games there are juicy.


[/ QUOTE ]

This must be a joke. Theres no edible food anywhere in the casino and the place is just generally a dump in the middle of nowhere. I'm pretty sure its the single worst stop on the WPT.

[CincyLady]

Well, to be honest, the last time I stayed there (at the Gold Strike), was about 3 or 4 years ago.

As for the food, I always ate in their coffee shop, and found the food to be good, and reasonable priced.

Last time I was in Tunica, was last year, and the food was still good.

I like also how the poker room if you are playing there, supplies you with free food as well.

[RealMcCoy]

[/ QUOTE ]I was refering more to the floor staff. I haven't been aroudn the circuit for a couple of years to see how the dealers are these days. I know Johnny is on my short list of people I would want to direct a tournament for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

JG is as decent a man to poker players as they come. Long before he became "known" as a Major TD in pre Moneymaker days at the Shoe in Tunica you could always count on a good laugh and a well reasoned game decision from Johnny.

Nice guys can win sometimes - happy for Johnny it seems to be working out for him.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]I was refering more to the floor staff. I haven't been aroudn the circuit for a couple of years to see how the dealers are these days. I know Johnny is on my short list of people I would want to direct a tournament for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

JG is as decent a man to poker players as they come. Long before he became "known" as a Major TD in pre Moneymaker days at the Shoe in Tunica you could always count on a good laugh and a well reasoned game decision from Johnny.

Nice guys can win sometimes - happy for Johnny it seems to be working out for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have spent a decent amount of time in Tunica. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[RealMcCoy]

Probably a LOT more than I have spent in Tunica - I have made 20 trips or so over the last 8 years some for several weeks at a stretch but that pails in comparison to many many others such as yourself.

That fact actually speaks volumes for Johnny Grooms approach to the treatment of players whether they were locals or "visitors".

He is just a class act in my experience - competent with a sense of humor.

[NicksDad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If say you had held the WPT event in Tunica at the same time, I'd be really faced with a hard choice, because I've stayed at the Gold Strike before, and it's a wonderful hotel, and the normal poker room is really great and the cash games there are juicy.


[/ QUOTE ]

This must be a joke. Theres no edible food anywhere in the casino and the place is just generally a dump in the middle of nowhere. I'm pretty sure its the single worst stop on the WPT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't compare Tuncia's WPT to any other. But I can say the staff and the food is pretty good.

The Atrium has great ribs, a decent steak, and an awesome breakfast.

I'm more and more impressed everytime I stay there.

I have no doubt every place in Vegas has more to offer. But for me Tunica is better in a couple ways. One, for example, is when you hit the buffet you get normal decent food at a fair price (free 100% of the time for most).

It's much harder (it seems from the few times I've been there) to get comps. I'd much rather have a free meal in Tuncia then pay $27 for the buffet at the Bellagio. Now if money wasn't part of it then it might be different.

[MrFizzbin]

My problems with the Circuit events and sats are that they are short stack donkey shovefests...

I played 3 of the circuits and 2 of the WPT events (cashed in 2 circuits events and have NOT been impressed with the structures. The WPT events/Sats have a LOT of play in them, and the fact that WPT offers sats generally pay 2 spots also is a plus for me.

I also played at the Ballys Circuit event too and it was also structurally challenged 1500 chips w. (starting blinds of 25/50 just sucks.)

The only time I saw a playable structure at the circuit was when they ran the 500 single table sng's w 3k in chips and starting blinds of 25/50, and I think either 25 min or 30 min levels.

So for me WPT events tend to be better for prelims especially in Tunica and Vegas. If you are going to make $$ cash games and sats are the richest pools of $$$ if you can pick your tables wisely....

[pig4bill]

Except that sats aren't money making because you can't sell lammers for WPT events.

[MrFizzbin]

[ QUOTE ]
Except that sats aren't money making because you can't sell lammers for WPT events.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe YOU can't but I've never had any trouble selling them in tunica, or Vegas. They just ask that you don't hang in front of the cage pestering people.