50NL: Pot is $50 before flop action, should I shove pf?

[RunDownHouse]

I think I would have shoved if not for the other big stack to my right. He seems like a doofus, and while it doesn't seem like he's getting cagy with AA/KK, that's what doofuses do, right?

SB is the guy from my "Small Pots OOP" post and he's shaping up to be a big idiot.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $37.00
BB: $12.45
UTG: $48.75
CO: $109.90
Hero (BTN): $101.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $5.00</font>, SB calls $4.75, <font color="red">BB raises all-in to $12.45</font>, CO calls $11.45, Hero calls $7.45, SB calls $7.45

Flop: ($49.80) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 Players - 1 All-In)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($49.80) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 Players - 1 All-In)
SB checks, <font color="red">CO bets $5.50</font>, Hero calls $5.50, SB calls $5.50

River: ($66.30) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 Players - 1 All-In)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Pot Size: $66.30 ($2 Rake)

[Nick C]

Interesting spot. I think I shove, though, expecting to have the best hand. (I'm not giving BB's shorty push that much credit, even if it is a 4-bet, and besides, we're obviously at least calling him anyway.)

[EMc]

If im playing this hand at all, Im shoving PF.

[creamfillin]

Shove over the shortie. If CO happens to have a monster good for him. Way too much free money in the pot to play it any differently.

[sightless]

shove pf

[gumpzilla]

Have you guys looked at the stacks? You're shoving another $90 there with QQ after CO has shown some intense interest. How often do you think getting 200 BBs in preflop with QQ is going to end happily?

I think I like the hand as played.

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you guys looked at the stacks? You're shoving another $90 there with QQ after CO has shown some intense interest. How often do you think getting 200 BBs in preflop with QQ is going to end happily?

I think I like the hand as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the time that the shove would happen pf, CO has min raised and that is it. I don't call that intense interest. Shoving is bad because it allows him to play perfectly with a monster like KK-AA where we are crushed, otherwise there is very little chance CO calls. However, reraising to like $25-30 and then seeing what CO does accomplishes the same thing without allowing CO to play perfect poker when he has AA-KK.

The main problem that I see with our hand is that if we do put in ~30, we have to commit on the flop since there is really only one more pot sized bet left if CO comes along.

So does that mean that hero played it right? Not sure but it doesn't seem that bad.

+EV

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

By the time that the shove would happen pf, CO has min raised and that is it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, by the time the PF shove happens the CO has minraised and then called a 4bet all-in with a 200 BB stack (who 3bet) yet to act. (EDIT: And just for good measure, the 3bet got called in one place before the shove!) That's a pretty strong degree of interest. Ruling out AA or KK here doesn't seem like a good idea to me at all.

[ QUOTE ]
However, reraising to like $25-30 and then seeing what CO does accomplishes the same thing without allowing CO to play perfect poker when he has AA-KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Especially since you seem to be saying in your next sentence that you'd feel fairly committed at that point, it seems like he's still going to be doing just fine with his KK+ hands.

(EDIT: Once you get to the flop with this berserk PF action and the A comes, I'm assuming there's about a 1% chance our hand is good with regards to the main pot and so trying to make a play at that pot seems like it's not a great idea. CO is making it cheap enough for us to see showdown that I think that's what we should do. It is an interesting question once you call PF what you should do on a T or J high flop.)

(YET ANOTHER EDIT: I bet CO shows KK at showdown.)

[BigPoppa]

Most definitely shove here.

You want to get it HU with shortie and have a ton of dead money in the pot.

[wslee00]

i think co has small pp

I don't usually ask, but what were the results?

[wikemang]

[ QUOTE ]
If im playing this hand at all, Im shoving PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, with so much dead money in the pot already, we don't want anyone tagging along with a hand like AQ or AK looking to spike an ace/king.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
i think co has small pp

I don't usually ask, but what were the results?

[/ QUOTE ]
BB shortstack shover had AA for the main pot, SB had 88, and CO deep stack had KJs (!)

Like I said, if these were normal stacks, I would have been much closer to shoving; if I had KK, I probably shove. But I agree with those who said getting 200BBs in pf with QQ isn't a happy place.

I couldn't believe I won the side pot.