yet another what to do agianst this donk bet hand

[monkeymaps]

villan is 58/10/1 over 30 hands

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $5.50
BB: $5.50
UTG: $9.65
MP: $15.80
CO: $17.80
Hero (BTN): $9.85

Preflop: Hero is dealt 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, CO calls $0.10, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.60</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.45) Khttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $0.80</font>, [i]Hero?

my preflop raises had been getting respect so I thought this is ok
villan had c/f to my cbet a few hands ago

[blackice781]

make it $2.5 to go, see where we're at. they usually fold.

[Man Our Units]

Making it 2.5 is turning our hand into a bluff here. Call his bet and see what his action is on turn. If he bets again fold, if he checks you can bet out.

[blackice781]

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Making it 2.5 is turning our hand into a bluff here. Call his bet and see what his action is on turn. If he bets again fold, if he checks you can bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree, this is too drawy of a board to just call a bet on the flop. the villain has a 58% vpip, so we usually have the best hand. therefore, making it $2.5 is to chase him off draws/lower pairs.

[wslee00]

this guy won't bet into you on a draw. his af is 1. i'd call down as long as his bets are small.

[Man Our Units]

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Making it 2.5 is turning our hand into a bluff here. Call his bet and see what his action is on turn. If he bets again fold, if he checks you can bet out.

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i disagree, this is too drawy of a board to just call a bet on the flop. the villain has a 58% vpip, so we usually have the best hand. therefore, making it $2.5 is to chase him off draws/lower pairs.

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This board is super bad to raise a villian with 58% vpip here. Sure he might have a draw, but his range isnt limited strictly to a draw. Our hand is good, not great. I would be super willing to fold to a turn bet.

[blackice781]

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this guy won't bet into you on a draw. his af is 1. i'd call down as long as his bets are small.

[/ QUOTE ]

we shouldn't give the AF too much weight for the sake of it being only 30 hands.

looks like a standard feeler lead.

raising is imperative.

[Man Our Units]

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this guy won't bet into you on a draw. his af is 1. i'd call down as long as his bets are small.

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we shouldn't give the AF too much weight for the sake of it being only 30 hands.

looks like a standard feeler lead.

raising is imperative.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are we raising, if he has a draw hes not folding if he has two pair hes not folding, if he has Ax hes not folding. So tell me again, why are we raising?

[monkeymaps]

yeah I think raise is out of the question here no worse hands call and all the better ones make money off my raise.

Whats a decent range to give villian here?

[Man Our Units]

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yeah I think raise is out of the question here no worse hands call and all the better ones make money off my raise.

Whats a decent range to give villian here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres a lot of villian can have right now, any two pair, Ax, FD, SD, etc. This is why I like to call flop and see how he acts turn.

[blackice781]

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this guy won't bet into you on a draw. his af is 1. i'd call down as long as his bets are small.

[/ QUOTE ]

we shouldn't give the AF too much weight for the sake of it being only 30 hands.

looks like a standard feeler lead.

raising is imperative.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are we raising, if he has a draw hes not folding if he has two pair hes not folding, if he has Ax hes not folding. So tell me again, why are we raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

we are raising to take control of the hand.

his range is much wider than the range you put him on.

[Man Our Units]

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this guy won't bet into you on a draw. his af is 1. i'd call down as long as his bets are small.

[/ QUOTE ]

we shouldn't give the AF too much weight for the sake of it being only 30 hands.

looks like a standard feeler lead.

raising is imperative.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are we raising, if he has a draw hes not folding if he has two pair hes not folding, if he has Ax hes not folding. So tell me again, why are we raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

we are raising to take control of the hand.

his range is much wider than the range you put him on.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes obvisouly his range could include 23o(sarcasm)...I dont see what you are getting at. He barely ever is behind right now with the exception of a draw, which he will call a raise anyhow.

[blackice781]

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this guy won't bet into you on a draw. his af is 1. i'd call down as long as his bets are small.

[/ QUOTE ]

we shouldn't give the AF too much weight for the sake of it being only 30 hands.

looks like a standard feeler lead.

raising is imperative.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are we raising, if he has a draw hes not folding if he has two pair hes not folding, if he has Ax hes not folding. So tell me again, why are we raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

we are raising to take control of the hand.

his range is much wider than the range you put him on.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes obvisouly his range could include 23o(sarcasm)...I dont see what you are getting at. He barely ever is behind right now with the exception of a draw, which he will call a raise anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think he'd call the raise with hands like QT, KJ.
also, we want him to be calling with a FD.
also, i don't see us being behind many hands that aren't 3bet preflop. what range do you put him oN?

[kurto]

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i don't think he'd call the raise with hands like QT, KJ.
also, we want him to be calling with a FD.
also, i don't see us being behind many hands that aren't 3bet preflop. what range do you put him oN?

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I think people with those stats aren't going to fold almost anything they'd bet. These are the players who will call down with any pair and any draw.

I think the problem is that the board is very coordinated and there are a lot of ways people could have hands that are well ahead of hero here.

Let me restate- If I have reason to believe the person would fold to a raise, a raise may be appropriate. Based on those stats alone, this isn't the kind of player who likes to fold. Its a very coordinated board and we have no idea where we are at. Raising will do nothing more then bloat the pot with a relatively weak hand where half the deck is scare cards.

I don't want to play a big pot here. Depending on my read of the player I may check/call and see if he slows down on the turn. I probably fold to a strong 2nd barrel.

[ssdex]

Blackice is right here guys,

you have to re raise a wet board here with top pair against a guy that is 58%, his aggression factor does not matter at all--- even if he has a better hand--- you raise for a few reasons

1) if you call you lose control of the hand, you have position, make him pay for worse hands

2) find out where you are, if he has relatively nothing, q 10 or something like that, then he's going to steal the pot from you, you are way ahead of his average range, you want to bet more now then call more later or fold to a worse hand later

3) if he calls just reevaluate, your probably only going to have to call a river bet if he makes one or his hand.

[Kasane]

We raise the donk because of all the draws -- that's a scary flop. If we've got the worst hand, he'll let us know by reraising. If not, he'll call, and we can bet a safe turn, chk behind, raise... re-evaluate, in any case.

It costs us a lot less than calling down never knowing where we are and potentially folding the best hand (an expensive mistake.)

We might call to see a safe turn, raising smallish bets there for protection/value. I don't mind that too much. Raising the flop will let us take control of the betting, and that usually ends up saving us money, whether we're ahead or behind.

Some donks fold, some call -- note what they donk with and why. Try to get to a cheapish showdown.

[ssdex]

take this hand out of your raising range if your going to flop top pair and then be weak passive and check/call/fold with top pair.

[Rounder101]

Call, ur in position and ur hand is not that good.

[EMc]

CO limp called here, you are ahead a lot.

I like to raise almost all donk bets here, with or without a hand. Lets make is like 3 to go and see the turn.

[monkeymaps]

thanks for all the replies guys