25NLHE, should i be getting away from top pair on the river?

[swainy]

only been playing on table a short while, villain is 38.46/7.96/0.29 over 11 hands.

I got the feeling that this guy would call with any part of a flop and i had seen him hold onto pocket 5s on a board of all overcards...

My early position raise with JTs is a bit of a foolish play, but I hadn't had much to work with all day and wanted to play a pot.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $4.55
BB: $9.25
UTG: $31.70
swainy83 (UTG+1): $24.10
MP1: $4.20
MP2: $24.40
villain (MP3): $10.15
CO: $32.90
BTN: $23.45

Preflop: swainy83 is dealt J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (9 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">swainy83 raises to $0.75</font>, MP1 calls $0.75, MP2 folds, villain calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($3.85) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">swainy83 bets $1.75</font>, MP1 folds, villain calls $1.75, 2 folds

Turn: ($7.35) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">swainy83 bets $3.00</font>, villain calls $3.00

River: ($13.35) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
swainy83 checks, <font color="red">villain bets all-in for $4.65</font>, swainy83 ?????

Pot Size: $18.00 ($0.65 Rake)

i didn't mind being called on the flop and felt i may still have the best hand, and i wasn't going anywhere on the turn with my draw, but after he had called me twice I felt i had to throw this one away.

what does every1 think?

[TheBobn]

Bet $2.5 on the flop so you can shove turn for less than a potsize bet.

[Peter Harris]

1) this isn't full ring NL forum
2) raising JTs here is bad, and "I hadn't had much to work with all day and wanted to play a pot" is losing poker
3) bet more on flop and turn
4) you don't have top pair on the river so post title is wrong
5) fold to river bet.

[Mike Kelley]

I think you are gonna find that your 3x preflop raises are not scary enough at these limits. Your flop and turn bets scream weak and the ace on the river was yahtzee for your opponent since he was calling down the weak raising line with probably ace high.

Bet more on the flop

check the turn

fold the river.

[Mike Kelley]

[ QUOTE ]
1) this isn't full ring NL forum

[/ QUOTE ]

What? I play full ring and 6max I post here. Where else would we post?

[Peter Harris]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2830/fullringldozd6.jpg

[FlyboyWhite]

I think your betting was a little weak all the way through the hand. A 3x raise in early position is small. You're going to be betting out of position the entire hand so you generally want to limit the number of callers. A 3x raise is easy to call when you're in position, and just about everybody is in position. Now, that said, J10s is a great drawing hand, so for your hand having a lot of callers isn't bad...as long as you hit your hand.

Top pair is not your hand.

On the flop you bet out less than half the pot. Anybody with two overs, or a pocket pair below a jack, or a weak jack like a QJ or lower, or even somebody in position who just wants to make a play later in the hand will call. Even an ace high might call here thinking that they were good. Your bet feels like you raised with a weak hand and then missed.

Your bet on the turn is just as weak. It is another bet of less than 1/2 the pot. Now anybody who called before plus anybody with spades will stay in the pot.

On the river you checked. To me it looks like you raised with a weak hand, fired a couple of bullets and then gave up. The only reason why I WOULDN'T go all-in here against you would be because I only had $5 left for a $13 pot. You're almost compelled to call based on pot odds alone.

So, that's your question. Is he making a move because you looked weak the whole hand, or was he trapping you? Based on the way you both played this hand, and his stats, I'd guess that he had a pair below jacks or paired the 7. Since A-7 is really the only hand I'd be worried about, I would call the river. You're almost getting 4-1 on your money.

- Flyboy White
Check out my profile for info on my poker bankroll challenge

[+EV]

dude, what are all those extra people doing at your 6 max table? Are they railbirding? They seem to have money which makes me think they are playing but that seems impossible. Do games even exist where you can have that many people at the table?

+EV

[+EV]

[ QUOTE ]
only been playing on table a short while, villain is 38.46/7.96/0.29 over 11 hands.

I got the feeling that this guy would call with any part of a flop and i had seen him hold onto pocket 5s on a board of all overcards...

My early position raise with JTs is a bit of a foolish play, but I hadn't had much to work with all day and wanted to play a pot.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $4.55
BB: $9.25
UTG: $31.70
swainy83 (UTG+1): $24.10
MP1: $4.20
MP2: $24.40
villain (MP3): $10.15
CO: $32.90
BTN: $23.45

Preflop: swainy83 is dealt J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (9 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">swainy83 raises to $0.75</font>, MP1 calls $0.75, MP2 folds, villain calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($3.85) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">swainy83 bets $1.75</font>, MP1 folds, villain calls $1.75, 2 folds

Turn: ($7.35) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">swainy83 bets $3.00</font>, villain calls $3.00

River: ($13.35) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
swainy83 checks, <font color="red">villain bets all-in for $4.65</font>, swainy83 ?????

Pot Size: $18.00 ($0.65 Rake)

i didn't mind being called on the flop and felt i may still have the best hand, and i wasn't going anywhere on the turn with my draw, but after he had called me twice I felt i had to throw this one away.

what does every1 think?

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW. Fold PF. are you kidding?

+EV

[Wada]

[ QUOTE ]

My early position raise with JTs is a bit of a foolish play, but I hadn't had much to work with all day and wanted to play a pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif This is tilt right here. I dont like this thought process. It's not the fact of raising with JTs in EP that buggs me - it's the wanting to play a pot because you haven't all day that worries me.

This sort of stuff gets people in trouble. Keep focused and if your not getting hands, then just walk away and take a break. Don't put yourself in -EV situations based on boredom.

[Mike Kelley]

[ QUOTE ]
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2830/fullringldozd6.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You get off on being a jerk on here?

[Splossy]

Plenty do.

[Peter Harris]

dude, the FR button is directly below uNL. I don't mind, but it's only fair to direct people there when they ask "where to post full ring hands".

I mean, come on. It's called "Full Ring". I don't have a vendetta against people who post full ring here, but you notice not many do? that's because there's a Full Ring forum. And yes, it's the button directly below.

Last time i checked, not many 2+2ers tolerate absolute idiocy. uNL and SSNL has huge traffic too, why not slacken some of it by directing posts to the more appropriate forums?

[Check_The_Nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2830/fullringldozd6.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You get off on being a jerk on here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how that was a jerk thing to do. He pointed it out for you?

[swainy]

[ QUOTE ]


So, that's your question. Is he making a move because you looked weak the whole hand, or was he trapping you? Based on the way you both played this hand, and his stats, I'd guess that he had a pair below jacks or paired the 7. Since A-7 is really the only hand I'd be worried about, I would call the river. You're almost getting 4-1 on your money.

- Flyboy White
Check out my profile for info on my poker bankroll challenge

[/ QUOTE ]


thanks, flyboywhite, thats basically what i wanted to know. thanks for providing me with an explanation and some constructive criticism.

i do sometimes play hands "cos im bored" and i recognise that it isn't a winning mentality, but i'm playing to have fun

sorry if this was the wronng forum, it was my understanding from the guide that i should post here anything up to nl50. I know there is a full ring forum too, but surely FR 200nl is a very different beast from FR 25nl.. no need to accuse me of "absolute idiocy," even if my post title was also slightly incorrect.