Neteller Waiver [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

kack1969

07-30-2007, 09:59 AM

You and NETELLER Plc Group (each, a "Releasing Party") mutually
release, waive, and discharge each other (each, a "Released Party")
from any and all manner of actions, causes of action, suits,
promises, damages, judgments, executions, claims, counterclaims,
demands, and any other form of liability whatsoever, in law or
equity, known or unknown, that the Releasing Party ever had, now has,
or hereafter can, shall, or may have against the Released Party from
the date You opened Your Account to the Effective Date with respect
to Your request to receive funds under the Distribution Plan and Your
Account.

The additional definitions below apply to this release:

"You" or "Your" refers to you and any of your assigns, heirs,
executors, agents, or anyone else acting on your behalf or in your
capacity.

"NETELLER Plc Group" means NETELLER plc and its predecessors,
successors, present and former affiliated companies, subsidiaries,
assigns, officers, directors, stockholders, employees, and agents.

"Your Account" means your online stored value account with the
Neteller plc Group, or any of them, which holds electronic money.

"Distribution Plan" means the distribution plan announced by NETELLER
Plc Group on 4 June 2007 pursuant to agreements with the United
States Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York and
Navigant Consulting, Inc.

"Effective Date" means the date on which You successfully withdraw
funds from Your Account under the Distribution Plan

oldbookguy

07-30-2007, 10:04 AM

I did not agree based on the following:

[ QUOTE ]
"Effective Date" means the date on which You successfully withdraw
funds from Your Account under the Distribution Plan

[/ QUOTE ]

What constitutes success, making the request or actually receiving the funds in my bank?

obg

Stark

07-30-2007, 10:06 AM

Crap, it looks like I shouldn't have signed it. In Layman terms it seems like I waived my right to sue Neteller in the future. Anyone else interpret the waiver that way as well?

SlowHabit

07-30-2007, 10:09 AM

Can you just click "cancel" and withdraw again?

Triumph36

07-30-2007, 10:10 AM

briton

07-30-2007, 10:11 AM

farmslicer7

07-30-2007, 10:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Crap, it looks like I shouldn't have signed it. In Layman terms it seems like I waived my right to sue Neteller in the future. Anyone else interpret the waiver that way as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want to sue Neteller?

[/ QUOTE ]

leveled?

briton

07-30-2007, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Crap, it looks like I shouldn't have signed it. In Layman terms it seems like I waived my right to sue Neteller in the future. Anyone else interpret the waiver that way as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want to sue Neteller?

[/ QUOTE ]

leveled?

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats that suppose to mean?

costanza_g

07-30-2007, 10:16 AM

Wait, i havent read/signed it yet....should i be sueing Neteller?

farmslicer7

07-30-2007, 10:16 AM

There are many issues that a class action lawsuit may be warranted but if you didn't have a lot in there, I don't see anything wrong with signing the release

Stark

07-30-2007, 10:19 AM

If I could get money, yes, who wouldn't? Having close to 10k locked up for 6 months I could have used it to get some nice returns. What would a good poker player turn 10k into over 6 months?

LL2318

07-30-2007, 10:21 AM

i agreed... i don't plan on suing them so its fine

PoorLawyer

07-30-2007, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Crap, it looks like I shouldn't have signed it. In Layman terms it seems like I waived my right to sue Neteller in the future. Anyone else interpret the waiver that way as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

but they also agreed not to sue you.

Regardless, the site setup is misleading; it appeared as though you had to hit i agree to get your money; nowhere did it say you didn't have to agree. Based on that alone, one could argue it was an adhesion contract and try to void the waiver.

Triumph36

07-30-2007, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I could get money, yes, who wouldn't? Having close to 10k locked up for 6 months I could have used it to get some nice returns. What would a good poker player turn 10k into over 6 months?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno, maybe $0?

Would this really be the basis of your lawsuit? To sue for interest/expected earnings?

Quanah Parker

07-30-2007, 10:44 AM

I did not sign when I requested my release of $500.

If I had been required to sign to get my monies, then I would have. I can't see how signing this waiver benefits anyone other than neteller.

07-30-2007, 10:46 AM

Skipbidder

07-30-2007, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Blah Blah Spam Casino allows ALL players, including USA players from all 52 states. Get up to $555 Free on your first deposit using this link: www.spammityspam.spamcasino.html (http://www.spammityspam.spamcasino.html)

[/ QUOTE ]

2+2 allows you to be banned. They don't even allow you to post in the first place if you are from the 51st or 52nd state.

Stark

07-30-2007, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Would this really be the basis of your lawsuit? To sue for interest/expected earnings?

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a class action against PayPal for holding money hostage: http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/16751.html

Your Mom

07-30-2007, 11:08 AM

I didn't sign. I'm not worried about them suing me. I don't want to miss out if there is a case vs. them.

PrimogenitoX

07-30-2007, 11:20 AM

I doubt an errant click can constitute a signature..but yea...I obv did not accept

schwza

07-30-2007, 11:36 AM

they had my 6k for 6 months. even in just a 6-month CD i could've gotten ~5.3%, so that works out to like $160. no way in hell i'm suing them but if somebody else wanted to i'd be happy to ride their coattails.

the other thing that people have brought up is that by signing the release you give neteller a free shot at giving all your info to the feds.

if i had realized that you could get the money w/o signing i would have, but i'm not losing any sleep over it.

dlk9s

07-30-2007, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]

the other thing that people have brought up is that by signing the release you give neteller a free shot at giving all your info to the feds.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

xRocko

07-30-2007, 11:56 AM

I just want my money. Then I'll never have to think about these guys again.

Vince.

07-30-2007, 12:02 PM

I accepted it, says 3 business days.

4_2_it

07-30-2007, 12:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

the other thing that people have brought up is that by signing the release you give neteller a free shot at giving all your info to the feds.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Not sure how signing this somehow authorizes Neteller to turn everything over to the Feds (assuming they haven't already done so.)

Triumph36

07-30-2007, 12:24 PM

i'm not worried the feds already have all my neteller info

i can't see a suit being brought against neteller but i haven't kept up with all the latest developments.

IWEARGOGGLES

07-30-2007, 12:31 PM

I didn't sign it. I had like 30k stuck in there and if I ever get the chance to get the interest on it, it would probably be worth it.

SackUp

07-30-2007, 12:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

the other thing that people have brought up is that by signing the release you give neteller a free shot at giving all your info to the feds.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I just looked at the release quickly but doesn't it only go from the date you signed up to the date you get your money. So, if they do anything post your withdrawal, this should not be released.

Just looked at it quick though, so don't hold me to this.

FWIW - i withdrew and signed.

schwza

07-30-2007, 12:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

the other thing that people have brought up is that by signing the release you give neteller a free shot at giving all your info to the feds.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Not sure how signing this somehow authorizes Neteller to turn everything over to the Feds (assuming they haven't already done so.)

[/ QUOTE ]

the idea was that it would prevent us from suing them for breaching their TOS regarding privacy. i'm not too worried, just passing it on.

fnurt

07-30-2007, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I missed that part, I was so excited in cashing out that I just clicked accept to the waiver thing that popped up and didn't even read it or realize what it was. Anyone have a copy of the waiver?

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't click accept; there's no benefit to you in so doing, and you can withdraw your money just the same whether or not you accept. However, if you clicked it by mistake, it's not the end of the world.

I'm a lawyer and I have quite a bit of experience in filing class actions. I don't really have an idea whether there's a viable class action against Neteller, because I'm not all that familiar with the facts and circumstances here, or with their claimed basis for freezing the money in the first place.

However, there is certainly a nonzero chance that a class action will be filed, and a nonzero chance that class action will result in some sort of recovery for all of us. You don't have to do anything to participate in a class action; one day, a "claim form" shows up in the mail, and you fill it out and return it in order to collect free money.

By declining to sign the waiver, you leave open the possibility of getting this free money someday, and you don't really give up anything since the chance of Neteller wanting to sue you someday is virtually nil. So you might as well not sign.

Even for those who did sign, however, I have serious doubts as to whether this release is enforceable. At a minimum, you could make a good legal argument that it's not. And even if it is, odds are there won't be a class action or a recovery, so the point will most likely be moot. Unless you had a truly massive balance in your account for the last several months, at worst you're giving up a potential shot at a few bucks by signing the release.

schwza

07-30-2007, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I missed that part, I was so excited in cashing out that I just clicked accept to the waiver thing that popped up and didn't even read it or realize what it was. Anyone have a copy of the waiver?

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't click accept; there's no benefit to you in so doing, and you can withdraw your money just the same whether or not you accept. However, if you clicked it by mistake, it's not the end of the world.

I'm a lawyer and I have quite a bit of experience in filing class actions. I don't really have an idea whether there's a viable class action against Neteller, because I'm not all that familiar with the facts and circumstances here, or with their claimed basis for freezing the money in the first place.

However, there is certainly a nonzero chance that a class action will be filed, and a nonzero chance that class action will result in some sort of recovery for all of us. You don't have to do anything to participate in a class action; one day, a "claim form" shows up in the mail, and you fill it out and return it in order to collect free money.

By declining to sign the waiver, you leave open the possibility of getting this free money someday, and you don't really give up anything since the chance of Neteller wanting to sue you someday is virtually nil. So you might as well not sign.

Even for those who did sign, however, I have serious doubts as to whether this release is enforceable. At a minimum, you could make a good legal argument that it's not. And even if it is, odds are there won't be a class action or a recovery, so the point will most likely be moot. Unless you had a truly massive balance in your account for the last several months, at worst you're giving up a potential shot at a few bucks by signing the release.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the analysis.

PoorLawyer

07-30-2007, 01:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't sign it. I had like 30k stuck in there and if I ever get the chance to get the interest on it, it would probably be worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't the T&C say it is a non-interest bearing account?

NapoleonDolemite

07-30-2007, 01:57 PM

Yes, it's a non-interest bearing account, but by holding your money hostage for 7.5 months they have cost you the opportunity to earn interest elsewhere.

Backspin20

07-30-2007, 02:01 PM

NO SIGN for me. 3k..ship it!

bobbyi

07-30-2007, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't sign it. I had like 30k stuck in there and if I ever get the chance to get the interest on it, it would probably be worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't the T&C say it is a non-interest bearing account?

[/ QUOTE ]
They also say that you're allowed to withdraw your money.

WarmonkEd

07-30-2007, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it's a non-interest bearing account, but by holding your money hostage for 7.5 months they have cost you the opportunity to earn interest elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Neteller wasn't holding your money hostage. The DOJ froze it.

yahboohoo

07-30-2007, 02:25 PM

To resolve any ambiguity, here's NETeller's Terms of Service (http://www.westminster.gov.uk/environment/rubbishwasteandrecycling/recyclingfacilities/images/toilet_paper.jpg).

Dondoh

07-30-2007, 02:40 PM

Withdrew. Didn't sign, but I will not participate in any sort of class action towards NT unless some future event warrants it. Quite the contrary - if this check clears, I will tell anyone who is listening what a stand-up, reputable company Neteller is. They have taken it on the chin from the US government and done right by their customers.
If they are ever permitted to do business again in the States, I will gladly use their service.

SteveL91

07-30-2007, 03:25 PM

I signed because the way it was worded made me think I had to if I wanted to withdrawal my money. I don't particularly care about getting in on any lawsuits; I really just want to be done with Neteller.

PrimogenitoX

07-30-2007, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Withdrew. Didn't sign, but I will not participate in any sort of class action towards NT unless some future event warrants it. Quite the contrary - if this check clears, I will tell anyone who is listening what a stand-up, reputable company Neteller is. They have taken it on the chin from the US government and done right by their customers.
If they are ever permitted to do business again in the States, I will gladly use their service.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't let the euphoria of getting your money cloud your judgement. Reread what you wrote in a week and you will realize how ridiculous it sounds.

Merkle

07-30-2007, 03:52 PM

Since I have no interest in a class action suit against Neteller for holding our money and I would in all probablity use their services again if they re-entered the US market, I signed.

I understood that NT had already turned our information over to DOJ and while I am pissed about it I do not believe we have legal recourse about it. If I am wrong and have signed the release allowing or condoning this then I wish someone (with a legal background) would point that out and explain the reasons and other options.

PoorLawyer

07-30-2007, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it's a non-interest bearing account, but by holding your money hostage for 7.5 months they have cost you the opportunity to earn interest elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who was holding it? Neteller or the USAO? I believe the latter would not let them disburse funds. I am not an expert on the Federal tort Claims Act, but it is very possible the U.S. is not subject to suit in this case.

Merkle

07-30-2007, 05:08 PM

As explanation as to why I thought NT had alredy made our information available to the DOJ:

I found an old quote from Sniper on 3/24/07

"If you are interested in Neteller's privacy policy, why don't you just read it... it has always said that they will release information to gov't agencies on request... Navigant is in there looking "forensicly" (ie they are looking at everything)."

Based on that quote and statments made in NT's press releases about "preparing documents for" DOJ I felt all US transactions were already available to the DOJ.

oldbookguy

07-30-2007, 05:09 PM

From what I can gather, 55-60 million was 'held' by the USAO while being EFT'ed to our banks, the remaining was still held by Neteller, though the figure was likely more than 94 million combined to begin with since for a few days they allowed peer 2 peer and allowed you to transfer from NT to a poker site as well.

The 55-60 million was kept by the USAO as the first of three agreed payments by NT to the court in NY.

However, after a few days NT was unable to allow any U S funds from being moved presumably by the USAO.

obg

flyingmoose

07-30-2007, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I had been required to sign to get my monies, then I would have. I can't see how signing this waiver benefits anyone other than neteller.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the reason I didn't sign it. I have no intention of suing Neteller but I just saw no benefit to myself in signing it.

FreakDaddy

07-30-2007, 05:58 PM

I was dancing so much when I was clicking withdraw that I clicked accept so quick... the waiver kind of blows, but at this point I just want my money.

Oh thank you, oh heavenly day. My biggest win in one day, and it's money I already won... go figure!

subzero

07-30-2007, 06:00 PM

FWIW, It is described in the FAQ:

What is the Release?
When US members request to withdraw the funds they will be asked to agree to a Release which, in broad terms, is an agreement between NETELLER and the member that each releases the other from potential legal claims. US members do not need to agree to the Release in order to request and receive the payment of funds. However, US members who do not agree to the Release will, in turn, not be released by NETELLER.

linky (http://content.neteller.com/content/en/member_businessupdate_us.htm#120a)

Mr. Orange

07-30-2007, 10:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
US members do not need to agree to the Release in order to request and receive the payment of funds. However, US members who do not agree to the Release will, in turn, not be released by NETELLER.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious about this statement because quite a few people seem be withdrawing without agreeing. Is this all BS? Will anything happen to these people's transactions (i.e. get cancelled) in the next day or so?

fnurt

07-30-2007, 10:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
US members do not need to agree to the Release in order to request and receive the payment of funds. However, US members who do not agree to the Release will, in turn, not be released by NETELLER.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious about this statement because quite a few people seem be withdrawing without agreeing. Is this all BS? Will anything happen to these people's transactions (i.e. get cancelled) in the next day or so?

[/ QUOTE ]

The quoted answer seems to be quite clear that you'll still get your money even if you don't agree.

Refusing to give you your money unless you sign a full release would probably not make them a lot of friends at the Justice Department. Whether this issue was specifically negotiated as part of the plea agreement, I have no idea.

It seems to me that they're just trying a somewhat sleazy tactic in hopes of getting as many people as possible to give them a release for nothing. Basically, they're just taking a shot.

Johnny McEldoo

07-31-2007, 02:38 AM

just wanted to say thanks guys for all the insightful posts. for some reason i had a tough time deciding to sign or not even though it's probably not a big deal either way.

FWIW I withdrew today and did not sign the release. fortunately i only had a little over a grand in there.

HedonismBot

07-31-2007, 02:53 AM

Why would Neteller have this release unless they fear being sued?

1meandog4u

07-31-2007, 04:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was dancing so much when I was clicking withdraw that I clicked accept so quick... the waiver kind of blows, but at this point I just want my money.

Oh thank you, oh heavenly day. My biggest win in one day, and it's money I already won... go figure!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's like having the nut straight on the river with two other people and finding out you split three ways. Same here, we feel great...but wait, it's our money we won before... did we win it again...that's what it feels like...

First, "i'll believe it once it's in my account"

mo42nyy

07-31-2007, 07:20 AM

check your account
i just got my eft in my bank account

Uston

07-31-2007, 07:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why would Neteller have this release unless they fear being sued?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my reasoning as well. They sure as hell aren't offering it because they love their US customers.

subzero

07-31-2007, 09:05 AM