Live in Seattle and play online poker?

[runningirl07]

Just curious if there are any professional poker players out there who live in any of the "banned states"? I'm thinking of moving to Seattle but was just curious if it's even posssible with this "job." Any information is very much appreciated!

[Jimmy James]

I don't live in Seattle, but I always see a ton of people are Stars with Seattle as the city they live in. So I'd say the law is not enforced just by the looks of that...

[TomVeil]

I live in Washington and play all the time. They've never enforced anything at all, to my knowledge. In fact, the state is actually getting sued based on their law. I wouldn't worry about it.

[TheMathProf]

With Lee Watkinson making the final table of the main event, and supposedly earning his seat on Full Tilt, I would venture that if he's not going to get hit, no one will (he's from WA according to ESPN).

[jackflashdrive]

When the law was passed, authorities said point-blank they had no intention of going after individual online poker players.

Only legal issues individual online players need to worry about -- in all 50 states no less -- are tax issues. The IRS has said that they regard online wagering to be a tax evasion scheme.

[gringo]

As a layman, I try to keep up with the legistlation and tax issues for online poker, and have never heard or read what you claimed "The IRS has said that they regard online wagering to be a tax evasion scheme."

If you have that in writing, can you furnish it please?

[jackflashdrive]

[ QUOTE ]
As a layman, I try to keep up with the legistlation and tax issues for online poker, and have never heard or read what you claimed "The IRS has said that they regard online wagering to be a tax evasion scheme."

This is something that my accountant (who specializes in gambling) told me a few months ago when he did my taxes. I believe that tcan probably be found in their internal documents, which may or may not be accessible via the web.

If you have that in writing, can you furnish it please?

[/ QUOTE ]

My accountant (who specializes in gambling law and is an enrolled agent with IRS) told me this a few months ago when he did my taxes.

[yahboohoo]

I live in Seattle. I play online poker daily. No individuals have been arrested or charged. In fact, I don't think anyone's been charged (except maybe that website reviewer, which was total BS). Our state legislature passed a rhetorical law to appease their Native Indian campaign donors.

[ QUOTE ]
"The IRS has said that they regard online wagering to be a tax evasion scheme."

[/ QUOTE ]
Online poker = "a tax evasion scheme???" That makes no sense at all. A scheme is a ploy. In this case, it would mean someone invented online poker as a ruse devised to screw the tax man. Online poker might be rife with tax cheats, but to classify the whole industry as a "scheme?" Phhbbbt... That's like saying tipping in restaurants is a "tax evasion scheme."

[fnurt]

The basic point is that if you keep money in an offshore bank account, and you only claim the profits in the account as income if and when you transfer them into a US bank account, that's pretty classic tax evasion. People understand this point if they have an account in the Cayman Islands, but somehow, they think it's different if the account in question is hosted at an online poker site.

Whether you really have income at each and every online poker session is a question more metaphysical than I care to get into. But if you run your PokerStars account up to $50,000, and you decide not to withdraw the funds into your bank account until after January 1 so you don't have to claim the income until next year's taxes, yeah, that's tax evasion. The money is income when you earn it, not when you move it from one account to another.

[jeffman]

[ QUOTE ]
I live in Seattle. I play online poker daily. No individuals have been arrested or charged. In fact, I don't think anyone's been charged ( except maybe that website reviewer, which was total BS ). Our state legislature passed a rhetorical law to appease their Native Indian campaign donors.

[/ QUOTE ]

could you give any more details about that

[yahboohoo]

From a Seattle Times article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003062386_danny15.html)

The site in question is:
http://integritycasinoguide.com (http://integritycasinoguide.com/)

I have no idea how this was resolved (or not).

This column may be illegal
Thursday, June 15, 2006

By Danny Westneat
Seattle Times staff columnist


The first casualty in the state's war on Internet gambling is a local Web site where nobody was actually doing any gambling.

What a Bellingham man did on his site was write about online gambling. He reviewed Internet casinos. He had links to them, and ran ads by them. He fancied himself a guide to an uncharted frontier, even compiling a list of "rogue casinos" that had bilked gamblers.

All that, says the state — the ads, the linking, even the discussing — violates a new state law barring online wagering or using the Internet to transmit "gambling information."

"It's what the feds would call 'aiding and abetting,' " says the director of the state's gambling commission, Rick Day. "Telling people how to gamble online, where to do it, giving a link to it — that's all obviously enabling something that is illegal."

Uh-oh. This is starting to get a little creepy.

I hadn't been all worked up about the state's crusade against Internet gambling, including the new law that makes most online betting a felony.

Yes, it's insincere. This is the same state that's happy to enable your online wagering if you're playing the ponies.

But mostly it seemed the law was unenforceable. And passé. A society steeped in televised Texas Hold'em and Indian casinos is suddenly supposed to recoil at the idea of placing bets with a mouse? I figured the law was a bluff.

Then I heard about Todd Boutte. He's a former Wal-Mart worker in Bellingham who started a casino review called IntegrityCasinoGuide.com. He worried about the new law but figured he'd be OK because his site has no actual gambling.

Not so, said the state. Writing about online gambling in a way that seems promotional can earn a cease-and-desist order, and potentially, a criminal charge. Boutte learned this when a Bellingham Herald article featured state officials saying his site was illegal. He later shut it down and is trying to sell it out of state.

"1984 has finally arrived," Boutte says. "I can't believe this is happening in a liberal place like Washington."

More may be on the way. The state plans to hire an investigator to enforce the new law.

Gambling officials told me The Seattle Times may be afoul of the law because we print a poker how-to column, "Card Shark," by gambler Daniel Negreanu. He sometimes tells readers to hone their skills at online casinos. And at the end of each column is a Web address, fullcontactpoker.com/news, where readers can comment.

If you type in that address, you whiz off to Negreanu's digital casino based in the Antilles.

It's a tangled Web, isn't it? The state says we'd best do our part to untangle it.

"My suggestion to you is to remove from your paper any advice about online gambling and any links to illegal sites," Day said.

So even this column could be illegal?

The state's gone from trying to control gambling, which is legit, to trying to control people speaking about gambling.

It's hard to take coming from a state that bombards us with pitches for the biggest sucker's bet of all. You know, the one they call the lottery.

Danny Westneat's column appears Thursday and Sunday. Reach him at 206-464-2086 or dwestneat@seattletimes.com.

Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

[jackflashdrive]

[ QUOTE ]
I live in Seattle. I play online poker daily. No individuals have been arrested or charged. In fact, I don't think anyone's been charged (except maybe that website reviewer, which was total BS). Our state legislature passed a rhetorical law to appease their Native Indian campaign donors.

[ QUOTE ]
"The IRS has said that they regard online wagering to be a tax evasion scheme."

[/ QUOTE ]
Online poker = "a tax evasion scheme???" That makes no sense at all. A scheme is a ploy. In this case, it would mean someone invented online poker as a ruse devised to screw the tax man. Online poker might be rife with tax cheats, but to classify the whole industry as a "scheme?" Phhbbbt... That's like saying tipping in restaurants is a "tax evasion scheme."

[/ QUOTE ]

(1) My accountant is one of 4 or 5 in the country who specializes in gambling accountancy.

(2) He is an enrolled agent with the IRS and very down with their policies.

(3) The IRS has stated their belief in internal documents that a lot of people will use online gambling to evade taxes -- this is what is meant by tax evasion scheme (not necessarily that online poker was 'invented' for the purpose of evading taxes).

The upshot is that you will get a lot of scrutiny if the IRS determines you've made anything substantial from online gambling.

[yahboohoo]

[ QUOTE ]
(1) My accountant is one of 4 or 5 in the country who specializes in gambling accountancy.

(2) He is an enrolled agent with the IRS and very down with their policies.

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems a conflict of interest (to me anyway) to hold these two positions simultaneously. Of course, "enrolled agent" is kind of vague.

[ QUOTE ]
(3) The IRS has stated their belief in internal documents that a lot of people will use online gambling to evade taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I still don't get it. The guy's qualifications aside, I'm just not tracking. How do you "use" online gambling to avoid taxes? How is it any different than gambling in the B&M casino 15 minutes from my house? I can choose to report what I win or not, regardless of where I play, just like restaurant workers can choose to report their tips or not. Or my gardener who I pay with cash.

It isn't about the gaming industry, and it isn't online gambling either. Tax evasion has almost everything to do with personal integrity.

[ QUOTE ]
The upshot is that you will get a lot of scrutiny if the IRS determines you've made anything substantial from online gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Now this is a statement I think most people would generally agree with.

NETeller's debit card made tax evasion much, much more easy. But this was NETeller's thing, not the problem of online poker sites. Those requesting checks from poker sites and those having NETeller reverse winnings back to their bank accounts have exposed themselves to a huge level of risk if they didn't declare the income.

[oldbookguy]

[ QUOTE ]
(3) The IRS has stated their belief in internal documents that a lot of people will use online gambling to evade taxes -- this is what is meant by tax evasion scheme (not necessarily that online poker was 'invented' for the purpose of evading taxes).

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: SINCE there are no regulations that Online sites require / or are required to have customers file a 1099 on payouts over 600 dollars (as skill sites do) many will simply not report the income.

Thus it is a self fulfilling statement, the industry is branded a tax evasion scheme.

obg

[yahboohoo]

Also known as a Catch 22, where the remedy to a problem lies within the problem itself

[jackflashdrive]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems a conflict of interest (to me anyway) to hold these two positions simultaneously. Of course, "enrolled agent" is kind of vague.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is not an employee of the IRS. I'm not sure exactly what 'enrolled agent' entails, but I can say for example that he has access to some IRS files to which other accountants would not have access (i.e. if you are being audited or if there is a discrepancy with your return, I believe he can see the IRS internal notes on your case).

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't get it. The guy's qualifications aside, I'm just not tracking. How do you "use" online gambling to avoid taxes? How is it any different than gambling in the B&M casino 15 minutes from my house? I can choose to report what I win or not, regardless of where I play, just like restaurant workers can choose to report their tips or not. Or my gardener who I pay with cash.

It isn't about the gaming industry, and it isn't online gambling either. Tax evasion has almost everything to do with personal integrity.


[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly I've told you exactly what he told me, that "the IRS regards online gambling to be a tax evasion scheme." When I heard that my understanding was that the IRS classifies certain activities as having a high liklihood of tax shenanigans associated (e.g., money laundering, simply not paying taxes, etc.), and that the activities that fall under the umbrella of 'tax evasion schemes' can be somewhat diverse. As oldbookguy mentioned, it is possible that this just means that the IRS expects a lot of people gambling online to not pay taxes. I'm not exactly sure, and I'll ask for clarification next time I see him.

[yahboohoo]

Thank you for responding with objectivity. Your candor, curiosity and willingness to explore the topic further is also appreciated.

[poorolrich]

Ok, so I would agree that there are a lot of tax evaders gambling on-line. But, at the same time there are a lot of poker players playing at B&M's also not paying taxes. Can't get away with it playing slots at B&M's since they notify the IRS on wins over a certain amount. In poker it is much easier to evade any reporting situations.

[tangled]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I would agree that there are a lot of tax evaders gambling on-line. But, at the same time there are a lot of poker players playing at B&M's also not paying taxes. Can't get away with it playing slots at B&M's since they notify the IRS on wins over a certain amount. In poker it is much easier to evade any reporting situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, if internet gaming was regulated, that would pretty much shut down any scheming that is occurring.