$5NL 6-Max, What's your move when checking the probable nuts

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

on the end has little to no value as a bluff catcher?

Read on villain: he is decent so far, but that's not really saying much, because he had a big stack when I got to the table and we haven't really tangled too much until this pot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($3.66)
SB ($8.83)
Hero ($8.41)
UTG ($6.21)
MP ($20.52)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, Button calls $0.05, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.22) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($0.22) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.16</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $0.4</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.2</font>, MP calls $0.80.

River: ($2.62) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ?

[shoxbb6]

Lead flop, you need to build a pot.
3-bet turn a little more to 1.5.
I push this river and get looked up by any Q

[EMc]

not checking the probable nuts

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
Lead flop, you need to build a pot.
3-bet turn a little more to 1.5.
I push this river and get looked up by any Q

[/ QUOTE ]

Overbet pushing on the end seems really bad, especially when you consider that any other Queen would have bet the flop behind me and most likely is 4-betting the turn.

[pfapfap]

Hero bets $2, at least.

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
not checking the probable nuts

[/ QUOTE ]

But are you smooth calling a 3-bet on the turn with less than Q3 looking to call a value bet with the weakest hand?

[shoxbb6]

[ QUOTE ]
Overbet pushing on the end seems really bad, especially when you consider that any other Queen would have bet the flop behind me and most likely is 4-betting the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think he's calling your turn 3-bet with? a 7? a mid pp? Queens can easily slowplay this flop(you did).

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero bets $2, at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you think villian is calling a $2 bet with a hand that beats you in order for this to be a good bet?

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think villian is calling a $2 bet with a hand that beats you in order for this to be a good bet?

[/ QUOTE ] Exactly 97.54% of the time. Two hands beat you. Are you serious?

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think villian is calling a $2 bet with a hand that beats you in order for this to be a good bet?

[/ QUOTE ] Exactly 97.54% of the time. Two hands beat you. Are you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious with this reply? If only two hands beat me, what makes you think 97.54% I'm getting a call?

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Overbet pushing on the end seems really bad, especially when you consider that any other Queen would have bet the flop behind me and most likely is 4-betting the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think he's calling your turn 3-bet with? a 7? a mid pp? Queens can easily slowplay this flop(you did).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're slowplaying Queens by the turn and your mini-raise is 3-bet (nice size pot now), are you really just smooth calling?

[shoxbb6]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're slowplaying Queens by the turn and your mini-raise is 3-bet (nice size pot now), are you really just smooth calling?

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course villain can

[ICMoney]

You bet and then re-raise the turn and are wondering if you should bet the river?

I can guarantee he will not bet a worse hand for you if you check.

Bet flop, bet turn, bet river.

[creamfillin]

Ok so you 3-bet the boat on the turn and then suddenly go into bluff catching mode on the river?.....???

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so you 3-bet the boat on the turn and then suddenly go into bluff catching mode on the river?.....???

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only profit from value betting if villain calls with a weaker hand. I doubt villain is strong at all and probably called the turn 3-bet to show he couldn't be so easily blown off the pot (my GOD, his mini-raise had feeler wriiten all over it!!). I'm sure he would expect a lead bet by me on the end with the goods but I don't see alot of value in betting because there are not many hands calling this river that beat mine, hence, going into bluff catching mode. A side benefit (value), however slim , is that if villain checks behind and I win showdown, everybody will see that I checked the best hand (when it's obvious they would have bet it). This could make them more apprehensive to bluff me on the river after I check or even value bet their own hands. I emphasized slim because this is $5NL and meta matters nil.

[vixticator]

You're right. He probably limped with Q7. C/f turn.

[wikemang]

[ QUOTE ]
You bet and then re-raise the turn and are wondering if you should bet the river?

I can guarantee he will not bet a worse hand for you if you check.

Bet flop, bet turn, bet river.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[Khaos4k]

Your logic is extremely bad, DUCY?

[ QUOTE ]
probably called the turn 3-bet to show he couldn't be so easily blown off the pot

[/ QUOTE ]
yet...
[ QUOTE ]
this is $5NL and meta matters nil.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
my GOD, his mini-raise had feeler wriiten all over it!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yet, he calls your bet anyways. Wouldn't a probe bet fold?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see alot of value in betting because there are not many hands calling this river that beat mine

[/ QUOTE ]

Except you know, QX.

[wikemang]

And, at 5NL, you're probably seeing a LOT of 2-pair hands looking you up. Bet the river!

[Mr_Pathetic]

hero should

always sit at my tables

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
You're right. He probably limped with Q7. C/f turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you think villian is calling a $2 bet with a hand that beats you in order for this to be a good bet?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly 97.54% of the time. Two hands beat you. Are you serious?



More poker gems from a guy who thinks betting $2 on this river is a good bet because it will get called 97.54% of the time by a weaker hands when only two hands beat me.

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
hero should

always sit at my tables

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't fear any 2+2 $5 and $10NL players at my tables. As a matter of fact, I regularly seek them out every chance I get because they often have $10+ stacks, which means there's more money on the table for me to win. Good (winning) 2+2 $5 and $10NL players offer lower implied odds on average than the normal braindead villains but they offer excellent bluffing oppurtunities because they are so busy thinking bluffing doesn't work at these levels.

[Mr_Pathetic]

lol. I feel same way except I will bluff you and valuebet you super thin. Basically if I got so much as a hair of an edge your stack at risk.

Edit: We have probably played together at some point although my name is not same on stars as it is here.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hero should

always sit at my tables

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't fear any 2+2 $5 and $10NL players at my tables. As a matter of fact, I regularly seek them out every chance I get because they often have $10+ stacks, which means there's more money on the table for me to win. Good (winning) 2+2 $5 and $10NL players offer lower implied odds on average than the normal braindead villains but they offer excellent bluffing oppurtunities because they are so busy thinking bluffing doesn't work at these levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really consider moving down to 10NL so that Mr Woo Sheng can practice his bluffing skills.

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hero should

always sit at my tables

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't fear any 2+2 $5 and $10NL players at my tables. As a matter of fact, I regularly seek them out every chance I get because they often have $10+ stacks, which means there's more money on the table for me to win. Good (winning) 2+2 $5 and $10NL players offer lower implied odds on average than the normal braindead villains but they offer excellent bluffing oppurtunities because they are so busy thinking bluffing doesn't work at these levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really consider moving down to 10NL so that Mr Woo Sheng can practice his bluffing skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come dim sum, then. I don't discriminate when it comes to who's money I'm winning. I hope you have $15+ when I sit at your table.

[Wooden Ta Sheng]

[ QUOTE ]
lol. I feel same way except I will bluff you and valuebet you super thin. Basically if I got so much as a hair of an edge your stack at risk.

Edit: We have probably played together at some point although my name is not same on stars as it is here.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on how thin you think you can value bet because some are more bluffs than thin value. I check bluff raise with air the same way I do with the nuts.

[corsakh]

Dim sum? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Ohh... Smells like someone wants some akshen /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[XxGeneralxX]

shove riv plz

[ben wb]

Bet 15c on this flop, looks so much more like a queen the way you played it.

Of course checking the river is ridiculously bad at nl5, loads of worse hands will call you, any 2 pair will almost always but they won't bet a lot of the time.