Whats the best country for online poker?

[tarath]

Imagine for a moment that things like family, culture etc were not at all important, and you were trying to pick a country to play poker online professionally in.

Based on things like
1. Online gaming legality
2. Tax laws
3. Not a 3rd world country
4. Cost of living
5. English Speaking (slightly preferable but not crucial)
6. other
What country would you guys chose?

[Akakapman]

UK

[The Big Sleazy]

mexico

[PJo336]

NOT AMERICA

[AP0CALYP5E]

What's your definition of 3rd world country?

I wouldn't mind living in Thailand, Costa Rica, or even Mexico. A lot of 3rd world countries are beautiful and have large cosmopolitan cities.

Australia might be a good choice.

[DMoogle]

[ QUOTE ]
NOT AMERICA

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, definitely not the country of America. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[tarath]

As for a definiton of a third world country I guess my main requirements would be

A) Politically stable
B) Safe
C) Access to good medical care isn't to hard

[Akakapman]

Mexico is really dangerous. I wouldn't want to live their

[crashjr]

[ QUOTE ]
Mexico is really dangerous. I wouldn't want to live their

[/ QUOTE ]

This is seriously ignorant. What experience do you have to draw from to lead you to this conclusion?

[NeBlis]

[ QUOTE ]
As for a definiton of a third world country I guess my main requirements would be

A) Politically stable
B) Safe
C) Access to good medical care isn't to hard

[/ QUOTE ]

Costa Rica FTW

[Jeff_B]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NOT AMERICA

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, definitely not the country of America. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL big ass country(s)...

[whangarei]

Argentina, FTW (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=eldiablo&Number=8899107&p age=0&fpart=1)

[dxu05]

Gibraltar and Antigua?

[teh_mewse]

canada or somewhere in europe

[MiltonFriedman]

Costa Rica wins on 1, 2, 3, & 4. As for 5, enough people there speak English you would not need to learn Spanish.

Also, McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Subway, Burger King, Papa Johns, farmacias, and "ChicasRUs" deliver to your house.

[stigmata]

UK would win hands down (english speaking, 1st world, legal, no tax), if only for the fact that the cost of living is outrageously high.

[The Big Sleazy]

[ QUOTE ]
UK would win hands down (english speaking, 1st world, legal, no tax), if only for the fact that the cost of living is outrageously high.

[/ QUOTE ]i hear the food there is dog[censord] i couldnt handle that.

[Quanah Parker]

Second Life is the land you're looking for....oh wait, the gambling ended there last week. Nevermind.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I'm with the Costa Rica crowd, but then again, I speak pretty passable Spanish. Australia would be high on my list, except I'm not real sure about taxes for professional gamblers there and its just so damn far from everywhere.

[schwza]

i've read some good things about belize but i've never been and haven't done a ton of research.

[jlkrusty]

Even if you leave the U.S., don't you still have to pay income taxes on your gambling winnings for "X" number of years after you leave? Also, does anyone know how high "X" is?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if you leave the U.S., don't you still have to pay income taxes on your gambling winnings for "X" number of years after you leave? Also, does anyone know how high "X" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you leave the US and remain a citizen, you have to pay US taxes as long as you have income. If you renounce your citizenship, you only have to pay US Income Taxes for 10 years.

[gringo]

I talked with someone who does business in CR and lives there part time. He said it is illegal for anyone to play online. I was surprised to hear this since they allow all the Cust Serv centers there. Does anyone know for sure?


I ve been to the county several times and love it, FYI.

[crashjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you leave the U.S., don't you still have to pay income taxes on your gambling winnings for "X" number of years after you leave? Also, does anyone know how high "X" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you leave the US and remain a citizen, you have to pay US taxes as long as you have income. If you renounce your citizenship, you only have to pay US Income Taxes for 10 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. At all.

[thecortster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you leave the U.S., don't you still have to pay income taxes on your gambling winnings for "X" number of years after you leave? Also, does anyone know how high "X" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you leave the US and remain a citizen, you have to pay US taxes as long as you have income. If you renounce your citizenship, you only have to pay US Income Taxes for 10 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. At all.

[/ QUOTE ]
You only pay taxes in the country you reside in, fact or fiction?

Do I, as a US citizen living abroad, still need to pay taxes on online poker winnings? How about WSOP winnings? FWIW I live in Germany and there is a double-taxation agreement between US and Germany, I'm just not sure how it applies to me as a US citizen.

Any clarification?

[tarath]

My understanding is you pay taxes in the country where you earn the income

Not sure though, could we get an answer from someone knowledgable?

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
You only pay taxes in the country you reside in, fact or fiction?

[/ QUOTE ]

Complete fiction, so long as you remain a US citizen. Not knowing much about the tax treaty between the US and Germany, though, it would be irresponsible for me to try and provide you with guidance. But you definitely need to check with an attorney or tax professional.

[tarath]

what if you switch citizenships?

I'm not sure i'd do this but i'm curious

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
what if you switch citizenships?

I'm not sure i'd do this but i'm curious

[/ QUOTE ]

If you renounce your US citizenship, and you no longer have US income, then you clearly don't have to pay US income tax. I'm not sure how renouncing your citizenship is technically accomplished, though.

[coloradoslim]

I live in cr(assume you mean costa rica).i play cards openly online as do many down here. although i dont have any residency status, it is quite easy to stay here long term. also, i live like a king on a grand a month and have excellent internet and banking options. pm me if you have any questions,this place is heaven on earth!!!

[bluemuffins]

So, from your posts I understand taxes on online poker winnings in Costa Rica are 0%.

In Sweden taxes are 0%. Except for poker sites with servers outside the European Union. (For instance PokerStars and FullTilt. PartyPoker is unclear.) Winnings from these non-EU sites are taxed by 30%. This tax is mainly imposed to protect the government owned Swedish gambling monopoly, 'Svenska Spel' (http://www.svenskaspel.se). As I love to play at Stars I plan to leave the country in a couple of months.

Since living costs are outrageous in UK, I look for any other country in Europe with 0% taxes on Stars winnings. I would consider moving there, irrespective of the language. There has got to be a country in the Europe were you can play on Stars without paying taxes?!?

Of course, I also consider Costa Rica. This forum is starting to convince me of its benefits!

[Soulman]

This is a bit OT, but isn't the climate in CR absurdly humid and generally wet? See http://www.trycostarica.com/index.php?temp=weather.tpl for source.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you leave the U.S., don't you still have to pay income taxes on your gambling winnings for "X" number of years after you leave? Also, does anyone know how high "X" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you leave the US and remain a citizen, you have to pay US taxes as long as you have income. If you renounce your citizenship, you only have to pay US Income Taxes for 10 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. At all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please cite a reference that backs up your statement.

My understanding is that US citizens working abroad must file a US tax return. Now, the IRS allows you to offset an tax liability with foreign taxes you paid which, since most other countries have higher tax rates usually means you owe no US income tax.

@nd point. It is completely legal to rebnounce your US citizenship for tax purposes, but the IRS requires you to pay US income taxes for 10 years after you renounce, thus the same rules apply as in the above example.

These answers were confirmed by a CPA who I have known for almost 40 years. If it is wrong, direct me to a source that will correct me.

[crashjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you leave the U.S., don't you still have to pay income taxes on your gambling winnings for "X" number of years after you leave? Also, does anyone know how high "X" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you leave the US and remain a citizen, you have to pay US taxes as long as you have income. If you renounce your citizenship, you only have to pay US Income Taxes for 10 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. At all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please cite a reference that backs up your statement.

My understanding is that US citizens working abroad must file a US tax return. Now, the IRS allows you to offset an tax liability with foreign taxes you paid which, since most other countries have higher tax rates usually means you owe no US income tax.

@nd point. It is completely legal to rebnounce your US citizenship for tax purposes, but the IRS requires you to pay US income taxes for 10 years after you renounce, thus the same rules apply as in the above example.

These answers were confirmed by a CPA who I have known for almost 40 years. If it is wrong, direct me to a source that will correct me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.

1st: The first 80k or so of foreign earned income is excluded from taxation if you meet one of two tests - the physical presence test or the bona fide residency test. There are other possibilities if you are a dual citizen or reside in a country that has a tax treaty with the US, but obviously I can't cover all of those situations here. Yes you still need to file a return, and you will still be responsible for self-employment taxes. Filing a return and paying taxes are not synonymous. Your blanket statement was not correct. See this IRS FAQ page (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq13-3.html)

Point 2: Besides being rather drastic, renouncing your US citizenship does have tax consequences, and the tax consequences are complex. Whether or not you fall into the 10 year exit tax provisions depends upon your reasons for renunciation (ie if it is presumed to be motivated by tax avoidance), your 5 year tax liability for the 5 years prior to renunciation, your net worth, and your expected income for 10 years following the year of expatriation. See I.R.C. §§ 871 et seq. and pay particular attention to § 877.

Basically, this area of the law is pretty complicated and blanket statements that one thing or another will happen with respect to tax liability in a one size fits all manner are not correct. Obviously, legal advice is worth what you pay for it, even on internet message boards. Anyone considering renunciation of citizenship should consult a tax attorney in addition to a CPA. A CPA is not qualified to advise you of the legal consequences of your actions.

[Professionalpoker]

Anyone check out Isle of Man? This is the home of Pokerstar's business office.

[tarath]

edit

[coloradoslim]

soulman,
i am totally ignorant of the tax ramifications of playing from cr. to this point i have been channeling my winnings via an e-wallet to my american bank and withdrawing spending money from an atm here. i guess i better start doing my homework on the matter.

[David LoPan]

[ QUOTE ]
soulman,
i am totally ignorant of the tax ramifications of playing from cr. to this point i have been channeling my winnings via an e-wallet to my american bank and withdrawing spending money from an atm here. i guess i better start doing my homework on the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol money laundryaments

[rosso87]

has anyone mentioned australia yet?

[Grumbledook]

You obviously need to consider visa implications and how long you can stay in a country for and the situation with renewing the it.

[coloradoslim]

im getting tons of ims about costa rica.if you have any specific questions im still happy to answer, but let me save you time if you are asking about live action here. i know of only two or three card rooms and none that i would recommend.if someone knows better,please enlighten me. in my opinion if your thinking of supporting yourself here playing poker, online is your best bet.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
im getting tons of ims about costa rica.if you have any specific questions im still happy to answer, but let me save you time if you are asking about live action here. i know of only two or three card rooms and none that i would recommend.if someone knows better,please enlighten me. in my opinion if your thinking of supporting yourself here playing poker, online is your best bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you wanted to be a hero you could start a thread like TheMetetron's thread about living in and visiting Argentina. I suggest it because I would find it very useful /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[coloradoslim]

whangari,
i will be in the states till sept 3rd chasing some b&r action, but when i get back i will post an "everything a pokerplayer needs to know to survive in costa rica" thread and see how it goes

[Wahoo73]

Tunisia.

[sinderg]

disadvantages of the uk.
if your a torny player like me get used to waking up at 8 in the afternoon and playing to 6 in the morning and not seeing day light for weeks on end since your still playing on USA eastern time.

also for the people who say Costa Rica they should get used to living in 100% humidity first its a killer some days.

[erac22]

If you don't like the heat then Costa is not for you. There are 2 seasons down there. During our winter, it is their dry season, 100 degree heat and low humidity. Our Summer is their rainy season, still very hot, humid, and rains a few hours pretty much every day. It's fairly comfortable at night. I basically surfed from 6am to 10am every day, stayed inside from 10-4, then put in a sesh later in the day when it started to cool off. I spent 2 weeks there a few years ago in december, I fell in love with it. It's cheap by US standards, (expensive compared to the rest of Central America) very safe, the people are cordial and lots of them speak english, the food is awesome (get used to fish, rice, and beans) and if you're a surfer, the waves are good and consistent. I can't wait to get back. I know nothing about poker there.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

One thing about Costa Rica is that the ability to play there in the future, atleast at Party Poker is questionable. Party seems to have very strict regulations demonstrated by pulling out of Asia recently.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing about Costa Rica is that the ability to play there in the future, atleast at Party Poker is questionable. Party seems to have very strict regulations demonstrated by pulling out of Asia recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they pull out of Costa Rica?

[coloradoslim]

that is odd, every tico(costa rican) poker player i know plays on partypoker

[sinderg]

anyone from canada have a opinion.
im thinkin of moving there from the uk just to get on a decent time zone.

[coloradoslim]

if the time zone thing is important to you and you have a warm jacket, canada is a great choice. it wont be a great money saving move and not very exotic, but you wouldnt be the first to move there because of there internet poker freindly laws. one suggestion: western canada is beautiful and probably has some good rates on airfare to vegas and los angeles

[LuckyDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
i will be in the states till sept 3rd chasing some b&r action, but when i get back i will post an "everything a pokerplayer needs to know to survive in costa rica" thread and see how it goes

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking forward to this!

[berya]

"i will be in the states till sept 3rd chasing some b&r action, but when i get back i will post an "everything a pokerplayer needs to know to survive in costa rica" thread and see how it goes"

Please do. Looking forward to it.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One thing about Costa Rica is that the ability to play there in the future, atleast at Party Poker is questionable. Party seems to have very strict regulations demonstrated by pulling out of Asia recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they pull out of Costa Rica?

[/ QUOTE ]

why did they pull out of asia?

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

I just emailed Party VIP and you can no longer access real money tables from Costa Rica or have a Costa Rican address.

[coloradoslim]

[ QUOTE ]
I just emailed Party VIP and you can no longer access real money tables from Costa Rica or have a Costa Rican address.

[/ QUOTE ]
i stand corrected, my tico gambling freinds are disapointed im sure

[pyedog]

[ QUOTE ]
I just emailed Party VIP and you can no longer access real money tables from Costa Rica or have a Costa Rican address.

[/ QUOTE ]
And nobody knows why?

Does this mean Canada is soon to be banned from Party too? Maybe they are only going to allow countries that specifically have legalized online gaming? Would that just leave the UK?

[Soulman]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone from canada have a opinion.
im thinkin of moving there from the uk just to get on a decent time zone.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Australia would be preferable then, you can play the big MTTs/evening cash games in the day time and have the day off, like a normal person *gasp*.

[Ludanto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just emailed Party VIP and you can no longer access real money tables from Costa Rica or have a Costa Rican address.

[/ QUOTE ]
And nobody knows why?

Does this mean Canada is soon to be banned from Party too? Maybe they are only going to allow countries that specifically have legalized online gaming? Would that just leave the UK?

[/ QUOTE ]

So Canade is NOT one of the countries where you can earn a living as poker player (online and life) officially? (meaning that online&live poker player is your official profession for any tax and official matters).
BTW which Canadian city has the most and the big action in poker terms?

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just emailed Party VIP and you can no longer access real money tables from Costa Rica or have a Costa Rican address.

[/ QUOTE ]
And nobody knows why?

Does this mean Canada is soon to be banned from Party too? Maybe they are only going to allow countries that specifically have legalized online gaming? Would that just leave the UK?

[/ QUOTE ]
They wont give anymore details, but I wouldn't be very surprised if Canada is next to go.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just emailed Party VIP and you can no longer access real money tables from Costa Rica or have a Costa Rican address.

[/ QUOTE ]
And nobody knows why?

Does this mean Canada is soon to be banned from Party too? Maybe they are only going to allow countries that specifically have legalized online gaming? Would that just leave the UK?

[/ QUOTE ]
They wont give anymore details, but I wouldn't be very surprised if Canada is next to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did a little searching on google and apparently it is only legal to gamble in casinos in Costa Rica. Bummer ...

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]
So Canade is NOT one of the countries where you can earn a living as poker player (online and life) officially? (meaning that online&live poker player is your official profession for any tax and official matters).
BTW which Canadian city has the most and the big action in poker terms?


[/ QUOTE ]

In Canada, we can still play anwhere with the exception of Bodog (the owner lives in Canada so he doesn't allow any Canadians to register in case of legal troubles later on), and we can't use Neteller. I heard that we can't use neteller because that's where their CS support office is. It was pretty murky why Neteller pulled out as we never really had any laws against online poker.

Besides these, Canadians can still play everywhere so that shouldn't be a problem.

I guess for the best poker action living in Toronto would be best. I currently live in Toronto and I'm thinking of moving to either Vancouver or Australia. It's been weighing in really heavy on my mind. Toronto really has everything I need but I don't really like the winters, it's too cold. The summers are beautiful as is spring and autumn. But the winters are bleh! I also like being around a lot of beaches.

[Ludanto]

Thanks for the reply 4thstreetpete /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually I didn't think of climate being a problem yet. But really cold winters aren't for me either. Are the winters in Vancouver milder?
What is the best/simplest way for a Canadian to deposit money on a poker site?

...and Australia might also be a pretty good choice for a poker player /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[_Towelie_]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the best/simplest way for a Canadian to deposit money on a poker site?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look in the zoo for the big 'ewallets for Canadians' thread.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

I'm surprised PP is still allowing you guys to play. I guess they are more lenient because you make up such a high percentage of the players and it could be somewhat devastating to let you go.

[THAY3R]

Can someone give me some sort of clarification on my US taxes burden(and Australian for that matter) if I were to move to Australia but still visit the US fairly often.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

are you an American citizen?

[miami32]

If I live in HongKong can I play on party poker?

[THAY3R]

[ QUOTE ]
are you an American citizen?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[crashjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
are you an American citizen?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion then your tax obligations will be the same as they are if you are living in the US. As I understand it, poker income is not taxed by the taxing authority in Australia.

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the reply 4thstreetpete /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually I didn't think of climate being a problem yet. But really cold winters aren't for me either. Are the winters in Vancouver milder?
What is the best/simplest way for a Canadian to deposit money on a poker site?

...and Australia might also be a pretty good choice for a poker player /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The winters in Vancouver is much milder. You're also always around nice scenery like mountains, parks, beaches etc. It's beautiful. I would describe Toronto similar to a cleaner New York. You will find all kinds of entertainment and nightlife to fill your boat no matter what tastes you have.
Lets just say if you wanted to look for a game, you won't have any problems finding any. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for depositing, I've never had any problems using any credit card. We can pretty much use any E-wallet except Neteller and Firepay, there is a big thread in the zoo so you can find more information there.

It's funny how there are people thinking of moving to Canada while there's many Canadians thinking of moving to the UK. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised PP is still allowing you guys to play. I guess they are more lenient because you make up such a high percentage of the players and it could be somewhat devastating to let you go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something really weird happened a few days ago. I was on 2 25/50NL tables on party made up of all the same people at night. One person spoke up and was like, "hey, everyone on this table is from Canada." Sure enough we looked around and this was true. It was really bizarre, someone thought a lot of europeans were banned. Nobody knew what was going on.

We talked about a lof of countries being banned on party but nobody knew the whole story but yea it seemed like a bunch of countries got banned.

[4thstreetpete]

KKF, I don't want to jinx it but I really can't see why Party would pull out of the Canadian market. We don't really have any laws against online gambling at all. The laws in Canada are actually pretty liberal. The Neteller decision to pull out of Canada is a real head scratcher here because nobody really seems to know what the real reason is.

I guess anything can happen as evident by Party banning so many countries but when you turn on the media, ads for pokersites are all over the place. You really can't escape it.

If party keeps pulling out, soon only the UK would be left.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

[ QUOTE ]
If I live in HongKong can I play on party poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

no.

[kassdog]

Can anyone give a little more insight to living in austrilla. I've been considering it but want to hear from someone who was from US and moved there for over a year.

[stevoL]

I dont think theres benfit to moving to Aus to play for u americans, ull still have to pay tax to ur government unless u never want to see america again as far as I know

but yeah, Aus is a very gambling friendly nation, and we aussie players have it really good down here, timezone isnt too big a problem either, just means we have to wake up at 5am monday morning for teh sunday tourneys