NL20, tough spot with 99

[Ramana]

How bad is this? Villain is 27/15/1.5

Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

UTG ($21.41)
Hero ($35.11)
Button ($28.29)
SB ($18.10)
BB ($19.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.20, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $0.80.

Flop: ($2.30) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $3.3</font>, Hero calls $1.80.

Turn: ($8.90) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($8.90) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $4.6</font>, Hero calls $4.60.

Final Pot: $18.10

[Arp220]

Not sure I'm good enough to call anyone bad /images/graemlins/wink.gif, but I sould have:

1 - raised more preflop, to 2 or so.

2 - c/c the flop

3 - checked behind on the turn, possibly minbet

4 - call river

[BombayBadboy]

PF raise size is just fine.

Flopbet is good too, fold to the raise though and fold river as played.

Arp220, you give some bad advice.

[WarhammerIIC]

Pretty bad. Your hand is bad on the flop in terms of reverse implied odds. You're going to have to put a lot of money into the pot to find out if you're good. No draw is folding. IF I even c-bet, I'm probably folding to the min-raise.

[BombayBadboy]

This is a good board to c-bet on IP.

[MrGrand]

pf is ok
i bet 2 on flop and fold to a raise
his range for c/r this flop is:
Tx,overcards with h,he might even have flush/set
all of that has you in terrible shape
if u hit your heart it is still propably not good
if it is good he might bluff you out
+it is impossible to tell where you stand
Like what do you hope for that he will show up with 66h or 55h

[MrGrand]

LOL ARP u do not have a clue what ur talking about

[monkeymaps]

preflop is fine I prob c-bet a little more and fold to the raise there arent really and good cards for you on the turn there IMO. this isnt a 100% c-bet here but I do it often in this spot.

[Arp220]

[ QUOTE ]
PF raise size is just fine.

Flopbet is good too, fold to the raise though and fold river as played.

Arp220, you give some bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt phrase it as advice /images/graemlins/wink.gif But please tell me where my reasoning is wrong:

1 - Bigger raise preflop to chase out AKQJx type hands.

2 - ok maybe a flop bet is good. Folding to a subsequent raise also sounds good.

3 - I wouldnt fold river. Ok, probably beaten but 3-1... I might even go all in to represent a slowplayed monster.

[Maneh]

[ QUOTE ]

Not sure I'm good enough to call anyone bad /images/graemlins/wink.gif, but I sould have:

1 - raised more preflop, to 2 or so.

2 - c/c the flop

3 - checked behind on the turn, possibly minbet

4 - call river

[/ QUOTE ]

1- Why bumps the pot betting $2 (10BB) ?!?!

2- Why not C-Bet ?!?

3- Just check behind. No minibet

4- I call w this odds

[MrGrand]

because raising so big is not optimal
you wanna maximise value against hands that you are beating
when you raise to $2 pf there, all hands ur beating are prolly folding and you end up in coinflip/dominated spot and you do not know what to do
there is much more to that but i do not feel like writing so much so maybe sb will explain it to you

betting out on the flop is better than c/c
and the idea of minbet turn is horrible

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF raise size is just fine.

Flopbet is good too, fold to the raise though and fold river as played.

Arp220, you give some bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt phrase it as advice /images/graemlins/wink.gif But please tell me where my reasoning is wrong:

1 - Bigger raise preflop to chase out AKQJx type hands.

2 - ok maybe a flop bet is good. Folding to a subsequent raise also sounds good.

3 - I wouldnt fold river. Ok, probably beaten but 3-1... I might even go all in to represent a slowplayed monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

because "chasing out" hands with over cards is not how you profit with hands like 99.
you raise to manipulate the pot size/take betting lead in the hand not to "chase out" hands that might outflop you.

[BombayBadboy]

1.
4 times teh BB is just right. There is no need to chase out AKQJx type of hands. In fact, we want them to call since they miss the flop 2/3 of the time and we can pick it up with a c-bet.

2.
Most flops miss most people. We bet here because we expect to take it down often enough to make an immediate profit. When we get raised we fold because of RIO and the thread of already being dead.

3.
We only have a bluffcatcher here, and we are looking at an rather obvious v-bet. I certainly don't give these guys credit for a sophisticated bluff.

[Arp220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Not sure I'm good enough to call anyone bad /images/graemlins/wink.gif, but I sould have:

1 - raised more preflop, to 2 or so.

2 - c/c the flop

3 - checked behind on the turn, possibly minbet

4 - call river

[/ QUOTE ]

1- Why bumps the pot betting $2 (10BB) ?!?!

2- Why not C-Bet ?!?

3- OK

4- OK

[/ QUOTE ]

1 - pot was already up to 0.5 so a big raise to make sure they didnt have the odds to stick around...

2 - cbet does sound good.

but... raise preflop, c/c flop, check behind on turn then all in reraise on river would strongly suggest AKh or KQh to villain...

[WarhammerIIC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF raise size is just fine.

Flopbet is good too, fold to the raise though and fold river as played.

Arp220, you give some bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt phrase it as advice /images/graemlins/wink.gif But please tell me where my reasoning is wrong:

1 - Bigger raise preflop to chase out AKQJx type hands.

2 - ok maybe a flop bet is good. Folding to a subsequent raise also sounds good.

3 - I wouldnt fold river. Ok, probably beaten but 3-1... I might even go all in to represent a slowplayed monster.

[/ QUOTE ]
- There is no reason to open-raise 10xBB pre-flop, in my opinion.

- If you're going to check/call the flop, just make a continuation bet.

- Going all in here is like getting yourself castrated because you don't want to have kids. There are just way better spots way too often to be pulling this crap at these stakes.

[monkeymaps]

All in on the river is LOL bad

[Quester]

I think a river fold here may be too weak. Villain c/r the flop, but just checked the turn when the 4th heart fell. Does a better flush really play like this? I would expect a c/r on the flop and a lead on the turn. Then the river bet is only like 1/2 pot after we checked behind on the turn. I'm not folding a mid flush here; villain's line looks more like an AT trying to protect on the flop, then bluffing on the river thinking we don't have it.

Hero should have c-bet more and folded to the c/r, but I think as played the river is a call.

[WarhammerIIC]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain c/r the flop, but just checked the turn when the 4th heart fell. Does a better flush really play like this?

[/ QUOTE ]
KhXh and JhXh definitely play it this way.

[swainy]

5x BB PF is good, no way u want to be going to $2.

nothing wrong with a c-bet on flop, nothing wrong with checking either. No big heart is going to fold to a c-bet, nor is a T, therefore u may as well keep the pot small and check.

I'm folding to the check raise. Its either 50/50 against two overs with one heart, or u are crushed by a set or made flush

Turn is always getting checked here. I don't understand y APR thinks a minbet is the way to go: it is a meaningless bet that no1 will ever fold to, a call tells u nothing, and if i was the villain, i would raise that min bet immediately.

I'm not sure I would call the river. seems like a value bet rather than a steal. if u had checked flop, not much would be invested by this point so u might as well fold.

[mvdgaag]

preflop is fine... I cbet too, but what I'd normally cbet on a draw heavy flop, which is 3/4 to full pot, say $2 in this case. I call the raise against agressive opponents only...

I feel he's got a flush, went for a c/r on the turn and bet the river instead.
Or he has a made hand and wanted to protect his hand/vbet. Failed and gave up on the turn. Finally bet the river hoping you called and checked behind with TPGK or something.

I check the flop and call the river

[Quester]

[ QUOTE ]
KhXh and JhXh definitely play it this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree about KhXh, but not JhXh. I think Kh would be looking to extract from a weaker flush and thus would lead the turn. How many players as NL20 will try to c/r on consecutive streets? Such a narrow range is MUBS.

We're getting 3:1 on the river; what other hands are possible?

[swainy]

[ QUOTE ]


but... raise preflop, c/c flop, check behind on turn then all in reraise on river would strongly suggest AKh or KQh to villain...

[/ QUOTE ]

i think at these stakes u r making a mistake if u try and represent those hands. U r making assumptions about the villain's level of thinking and understanding of the game. There is no point in making a sophisticated bluff against a weak player.

[DaycareInferno]

i would just cbet the flop and then fold to his raise. i'm drawing so thin against so many hands there that i don't really care much about the pot odds when faced with that raise. i just get out.

[Mike Kelley]

[ QUOTE ]
i would just cbet the flop and then fold to his raise. i'm drawing so thin against so many hands there that i don't really care much about the pot odds when faced with that raise. i just get out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise 4xbb+limpers preflop.

Fold on the flop after the RR.

[WarhammerIIC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
KhXh and JhXh definitely play it this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree about KhXh, but not JhXh. I think Kh would be looking to extract from a weaker flush and thus would lead the turn. How many players as NL20 will try to c/r on consecutive streets? Such a narrow range is MUBS.

We're getting 3:1 on the river; what other hands are possible?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think they're trying to check-raise the turn... I think the 4th heart would scare a K-high or J-high flush, so they would check-call. Once he checked behind, they don't have to worry, so they just lead the river.

[Ramana]

I think best way to play was simply to fold to his c/r. Very simple, I probably was tilting.

For anybody who cares to know: Villain flopped a flush with AKs. I should have believed him.