A8s from the CO... comments on all streets please

[AroundTheHorn]

i'd like to hear comments on all streets, but i don't mind my play up to the river, as i don't want to play a big pot w/ this hand (but i'd like to here what you guys think). on river though, should i raise or just call? villian checked flop to me (probably going for check raise) then bet strong into me turn and river. is this an easy value raise on river? what do we put villian on?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $71.15
BB: $52.75
UTG: $80.35
Hero (CO): $49.40
BTN: $21.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, BTN calls $1.75, SB folds, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.50) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($5.50) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $5.50</font>, Hero calls $5.50, BTN folds

River: ($16.50) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $16.50</font>, Hero???

[yellowdoyle]

ummmmmm.........river is an insta call I believe.

What are you really worried about from BB? AJ and sets. He will have AK, AQ, A7, J7, other pair + spades hands way too often to fold this IMO. After his bet on the river, he will probably call with the AK, AQ hands since he has invested so much already. But I would prob just call cause I am a station.

Flop I like the ch cause you will fold to a raise so you are essentially bluffing. Your hand is marginal and you are keeping the pot small.

Turn is fine I guess....

River I call.....maybe raise......ah I get excited and raise obv.

[calmB4storm]

I'm betting this flop ~99% of the time. We have top pair, and we want to charge any draws that want to play.

As played, BB is showing a lot of strength by betting out on both the turn and river. I'd just call down here.

[DaycareInferno]

if this is heads-up. i don't mind the check-behind on the flop, and i play that way a lot with tpwk. in this situation, i prefer the cbet, because i'd really like to get the button out of the hand if i can. also, you don't have to worry so much about wasting a marginal hand here, because the BB isn't going to check-raise with air nearly as often as when you go to the flop heads-up. your cbet is much less likely to be a steal with that extra guy behind you, so you won't get played back at nearly as often.

[Genz]

I usually bet this flop. And I flat call the river. If he is betting a busted flush draw, he won't call a push. His betting looks strong. So he is either bluffing or betting a very strong hand. Worse 2pairs are unlikely given the board. AK, AQ are unlikely given the preflop action and are the only hands that you can expect to call a push and lose. I flat call.

[BackdoorQuads]

I bet the flop almost always. As played, I might just fold the turn, seems 50/50. It's weak, but so was checking the flop. As played, I call river and expect to win more than 1/3 the time, not really being surprised with anything he decides to show me.

[Spurious]

Cbet that flop, why wouldn't you? Your TP could still be good here, there is a FD and possible gutshots out there.
I might r/f on the turn.
River is a call i think. Draws didn't come in.

[AroundTheHorn]

[ QUOTE ]
Cbet that flop, why wouldn't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

i figure that my hand can't stand a check raise on the flop (trying to exersise pot control w/ rather weak holding). i planed to bet the turn, but he led pot into me, so i figured i'd call and see what river brings. if 8 doesn't hit on river and he bets pot into me again i have to give it up right?

[reef2287]

your logic is flawed, a c/r on the flop means your absolutely dominated at these stakes, theres not many players capable of those kind of bluffs which = +EV, saving lots of money for us, a call can almost assume some sort of draw so we can bet out at turn, river is def. a call, not a raise because the only hands that call your raise majority of times are hands your dominated on, preflop its unlikely he holds ak or aq which your reraise might get some value out of so pleasse pleasse just call that river

[DaycareInferno]

a c/r wouldn't mean that you're dominated if it was just you and the blind by any means. its just not nearly as good of a play with that extra guy in there.

[reef2287]

at these levels though, nl25 and nl50 i find a c/r is a weapon to indicate a monster... i know at higher stakes people make these moves but it'd have to be a regular for me to assume here i'm not dominated-- but maybe i'm a nit

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd like to hear comments on all streets, but i don't mind my play up to the river, as i don't want to play a big pot w/ this hand (but i'd like to here what you guys think). on river though, should i raise or just call? villian checked flop to me (probably going for check raise) then bet strong into me turn and river. is this an easy value raise on river? what do we put villian on?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $71.15
BB: $52.75
UTG: $80.35
Hero (CO): $49.40
BTN: $21.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, BTN calls $1.75, SB folds, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.50) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($5.50) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $5.50</font>, Hero calls $5.50, BTN folds

River: ($16.50) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $16.50</font>, Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]


I really like the flop check. I think this is one of those instances where checking actually gives you more information than betting out. The downside is that it gives a free card to a flush draw. But it tells you that your opponents (probably) do not have aces. I think most opponents at these stakes will bet the flop when it is checked to them and they have any ace. You also assume that your opponents might be on a flush draw, so if another spade comes, you are probably done with the hand in most cases.

Turn is good.

Flat call is good on the river just in case he has you beat. You beat most two pair combinations, but AJ is a possibility here. Call instead of raise and control the pot.

And folding the river is out of the question.

[vixticator]

I play this the same way every now and then, call river. Most people will c-bet flop and check turn. I think this accomplishes similar goals and induces bluffs, the only problem is you are giving a free card. Your hand is kind of weak anyways. It looks okay to me.

[AMadison]

I see no reason not to lead on this flop. In hind sight because the villain bet so strongly on the turn and river he was probably going for the cr, however, at the time we can't know that. Betting would accomplish a lot of positive things:

1) Gives hands like AT or A9 a chance to fold, checking makes us look scared of the A and allows AT or A9 to feel comfortable on the turn and river.

2)Prevents a lot of hands (KQ, QT, 9T, 89) from getting a free chance to hit a gut shot on you and forces Spades to pay to draw.

3)It gives us a chance to get rid of it cheaply if we do face a cr. The most likely cr hands are: AJ,A7, 77,JJ and we are in a lot of trouble against all of those. So if we do face a cr we can get away from the hand cheaply since we are huge dogs to this range, with A7 being the only one we have any real chance of catching up to and we are still 3 to 1 dogs to it.



So I have to bet this flop. His strong bet on the turn tells me he is probably in good shape, and doesn't want to let it get checked through again because a flush could beat him. It's really hard to put him on a hand because we checked through the flop. He could have a lot of different things here (which makes the river decision really tough). I'd say we are likely looking at AJ, A7, maybe A2, JJ, 77.

[AroundTheHorn]

thanks for insight, i just called river, villian had AKo