Isolating

[fees]

1) they limp

Limping is a bad play at 6max 99% of the time, bad players with big VPIP's are notorious for doing this. They are basically screaming, I HAVE A CRAPPY HAND P LZZ DONT RAISE I WANT A CHEAP FLOP .. there are times when they do it to lRR but thats kinda rare and also they might raise like 1.5% of the time and m ight limp some good times, but the most of the time they have crap b/c those players are normally like 40/1/.67

2) they suck
As described above.. they are probably p5's posters

3) they're OOP
we're not

4) we raise, we take initiative
initiative is an awsome word, we take strength in the hand and say WE HAVE A GOOD HAND, PAY UP IF U WANNA CONTINUE FISH. They either fold or call, either one is profitable for us.

5) c-bet missed flops, profit
just Cbet like every time, slow down only agaisnt tigher players OOP or agaisnt complete stations.. or in multiway pots, otherwise B ET BET BET BET BETBETBETBETBETBETBETBETBETB

GOGOGO

6) nail flops with T8s, profit
ZOMG MONSTA BET BET BET BET PROFIT
7) overpairs/tptk, profit
Bet, 2nd barrel, but mb slow down on scare card or agaisnt trappy player, try to avoid overplaying TP type hands on crappy board, remember betting flop, checking turn, and vbetting river is very profitable with marginal TP type hands

questions?

By me and johnny

oh last thing, if theres a limp, then ANOTHER limp, the 2nd limper is screaming some godawful hand because he thinks his odds are that much better b/c onc eperson limped in front, be more inclined to raise in this situation

[derosnec]

depends on stack sizes at the table

[fees]

I would actually be more concerned about that when opening.. but it app lies here too, pref 40+ but if they make a habit of limping then i'll widen up

[ajmargarine]

So implied in your post is that we should never open limp? You mean raise 33 UTG? That's just crazy talk!

[vixticator]

Agreed. How do you combat this player...

They limp. You raise. Head's up to flop. They fold to c-bet ~20% of time. Are you just value betting and building pots with strong draws? Assume this player will bet the turn if you check behind flop, like always. Do you float this turn bet or no?

[fees]

i said something about stations.. just value town if ur sample is significant

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
So implied in your post is that we should never open limp? You mean raise 33 UTG? That's just crazy talk!

[/ QUOTE ]
raise or fold.. STOP CALLING FISH

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
depends on stack sizes at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't play tables where stacks are an issue /images/graemlins/cool.gif

if there's a shorty cramping ur style, GTFO

[derosnec]

well, aren't you mr. perfect

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
well, aren't you mr. perfect

[/ QUOTE ]

why the hate? and that was a serious post....if you're playing at table where you can't play you're game, why are you there?

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. How do you combat this player...

They limp. You raise. Head's up to flop. They fold to c-bet ~20% of time. Are you just value betting and building pots with strong draws? Assume this player will bet the turn if you check behind flop, like always. Do you float this turn bet or no?

[/ QUOTE ]just fire tha turn more. it is like prinitng monies

[fees]

dubble burrl es g00t 2

[derosnec]

i was being funny


so, anyways, you can't just c-bet loosely. coordinated medium flops are just not going to be picked up enough to be profitable. also, tendencies of people pf yet to act is more important too. and so is your image. and so on. i'd hate for people to read this and not consider all that goes into isolating effectively, or else it's gonna be spewing or marginally +EV with a decent amount of up/down.

[BevillTheDevil]

Are we isolating these callin stations like vix's example??? I mean obv we are isolatin w/ a decent range but this range should be considerably smaller than the range against just a loose/passive type player that folds alot post, right???

also i still dunno if i like isolating when 2 loose callin stations limp when we have a weak hand b/c i think we go to the flop multihanded waaay to often.
[ QUOTE ]
oh last thing, if theres a limp, then ANOTHER limp, the 2nd limper is screaming some godawful hand because he thinks his odds are that much better b/c onc eperson limped in front, be more inclined to raise in this situation

[/ QUOTE ]
so the 2nd guy limps yea b/c they think they have odds but say after the 1st limper calls our pfr (the guy we were probably intially wanting to ISO) then the 2nd limper thinks well damn now i have odds to call the pfr, therefore we are multiway w/ a pretty weak hand.

[Capone]

I agree with you fees to an extent.

nice post.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
Are we isolating these callin stations like vix's example??? I mean obv we are isolatin w/ a decent range but this range should be considerably smaller than the range against just a loose/passive type player that folds alot post, right???

also i still dunno if i like isolating when 2 loose callin stations limp when we have a weak hand b/c i think we go to the flop multihanded waaay to often.
[ QUOTE ]
oh last thing, if theres a limp, then ANOTHER limp, the 2nd limper is screaming some godawful hand because he thinks his odds are that much better b/c onc eperson limped in front, be more inclined to raise in this situation

[/ QUOTE ]
so the 2nd guy limps yea b/c they think they have odds but say after the 1st limper calls our pfr (the guy we were probably intially wanting to ISO) then the 2nd limper thinks well damn now i have odds to call the pfr, therefore we are multiway w/ a pretty weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]then u can cbet the flop and ur cbet is bigger thus not letting people call as loose. just gotta pick ur spots better as far as when to cbet and when to just give up the pot.

[jonyy6788]

derosnec....fair point, sometimes I and other regular posters like yourself forget that there are ppl trying to learn how to play

Bevil: I normally don't advocate getting too crazy with 2 limpers unless they're really weak. The only good thing about going to the flop multi-way is that it's tougher for them to play back at you.

One solution I do is to make it 5bb+1bb/limper (thus a $3.50 raise instead of $3 at NL50) behind 2 limpers. More often than not I seem to take it down PF or just get 1 fishy to the flop.

[fees]

bevil they dont both call that often, even if they do our hand will do fine in multiway pots

also everything kaz says, he explains it really good

[hennnerz]

Fees, how come your not at SSNL yet?

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
So implied in your post is that we should never open limp? You mean raise 33 UTG? That's just crazy talk!

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh? I missed something or the consensus has shifted? Or is this due to Taylor's videos?

[Learning]

[ QUOTE ]
Fees, how come your not at SSNL yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is. He just sticks around and chats like some of the other known players that have moved up.

[SirFelixCat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fees, how come your not at SSNL yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is. He just sticks around and chats like some of the other known players that have moved up.

[/ QUOTE ]

:anxioustobecomeoneofthem:

[Learning]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fees, how come your not at SSNL yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is. He just sticks around and chats like some of the other known players that have moved up.

[/ QUOTE ]

:anxioustobecomeoneofthem:

[/ QUOTE ]

:subtlejokeaboutyourmeansofcommunicatingwithinsmil ieformat:

[SirFelixCat]

:blameitonFBGnotmyfaultproductofmyenvironment:

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gelford]

:shouldIstartlearningtotakeahitandskidaddleoutofhe re?:

[Learning]

[ QUOTE ]
:shouldIstartlearningtotakeahitandskidaddleoutofhe re?:

[/ QUOTE ]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

never leave uNL!

[SirFelixCat]

:weloveyouGelbutbothofyoupleasestopstealingmyschti cktyandgg: