Kiss any online gambling legislation goodbye, thanks to a bad Ref

[MiltonFriedman]

Any Federal online gambling legislation has less than a snowball's chance in Hell after the NBA scandal.

If you think that any online gambling legislation will be passed or even has a shot, can you explain why ?

[Ron Burgundy]

That's why Frank put in the sports league opt-out thingy.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

[ QUOTE ]
That's why Frank put in the sports league opt-out thingy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. If sports-betting were legalized in the Bill, it already didn't have a snowball's chance in hell, crooked ref or no crooked ref.

[JPFisher55]

They may be long shots, but for the duration of this Congress and administration, the iMEGA lawsuit or WTO litigation are the best chances for improvement for US online gamblers.

[Richas]

I don't know anything about the NBA thingy but let us have a look at when sporting events have been fixed by whoom and why.

1919 Redsocks. Gambling illegal the mob acting as the bookie fixed it. Cricket, numerous examples of illegal bookmakers in India and Pakistan fixing matches they even alleged a murder (that turned out not to be).

With legal bookmakers and betting exchanges unusual betting patterns are detected and reported to the sporting authorities. Honest bookies want honest games. Open legal bookies detect corruption rather than their illegal counterparts who create it.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

1919 Redsocks. Gambling illegal the mob acting as the bookie fixed it.

Uh, it was the White Sox.

Great movie about it. "Eight Men Out"

[Skallagrim]

Have not seen Gaboonviper around for a while so I guess its nice that Milton is filling in, even though his posts are not near as funny /images/graemlins/wink.gif .

Legal betting on sports is, indeed, an extremely tough sell politically. Its also what will tremendously complicate any negotiating of the WTO dispute.

But it aint that hard to separate poker from sports betting, both politically and legislatively. Rep. Wexler's skill games protection act should not be affected by the Ref scandal in anyway.

Skallagrim

[JPFisher55]

I hope you are right Skall, passage of Rep. Wexler's bill would be great.

[BigAlK]

[ QUOTE ]
Have not seen Gaboonviper around for a while ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite certain that Armageddon day came, and Gaboonviper was no more. Self-fullfilling prophecy and all.

[CPOSteve]

Well, I'm going to have to agree with Milton here. We all may be able to clearly see the difference between poker and sports betting, but the general public and the politicians don't draw that distinction. The story today, and for the forseeable future, is gambling = bad. There are very few politicians on either side of the aisle who want to fly in the face of something like this, especially when the issue is as minor as this one. Yes it's important to us, but it's not even a blip on the radar of most of Congress.

I will continue to hold out hope, but I would agree that things are looking pretty bleak for legislation.

[thelogan]

Sports betting has been going on for years in the US, legally and illegally. If US legislators want to continue to bury their heads in the sand then funds will continue to flow offshore into the wrong types of bookmakers.

Fundamentally the NBA, NFL and MLB is honest, the players are paid so well that the likelihood of bribery is far smaller than in a remote Soccer league or European Basketball League. Obviously referees are always an easy target for unscrupulous people, however one hopes that blatantly bad calls from the same official would be looked at with an eye of suspicion.

I do not think that the US Congress remotely understands the Sports Betting issue, and simply has been railroaded by the evangelicals to believe that it is akin to the devil. The anti lobby is so powerful that few pro sports betting congressmen would put their head on the line to publicly support such an initiative. Unfortunately it will be several years or even decades before sense prevails.

As has already been mentioned there is a carve out already for Sports Betting in any future legislation, so I do not think this incident will have a major bearing on the ultimate decision.

My odds for Poker Legislation before 2012. 10-1.

[Dennisa]

I listened to a bit of the Jim Rome show yesterday. To put a fix on a NBA game, it does not take much. A few calls early against a star, then some free throws late in a game.

BTW, it looks like most of the fixes were the Over/Unders. The alledged ref went from 44% of his games going over in before 2005 to 57% of the games going over in 2006/7.

[MiltonFriedman]

" ..it aint that hard to separate poker from sports betting, both politically and legislatively. Rep. Wexler's skill games protection act should not be affected by the Ref scandal in anyway.'

What world do you live in Skal ? That is not how politics works in the real world. The NBA scandal will tar all gambling activity and stfile passage of any bill.

I wish you were right about Wexler's bill, but wishful thinking is not appropriate in a knowledgable discussion of politics. Wexler's bill however will not be affected only because it had no chance of passage to begin with. Don't you think the current "skillgames" operators are happy with the status quo ? WHO is going to push his bill anyway ?

As for the GabooonViper reference, that is a pretty low blow. Protect yourself in the clinches going forward.

[MiltonFriedman]

"passage of Rep. Wexler's bill would be great."

So would snowballs in Hell.

[MiltonFriedman]

I disagree vehemently that the iMEGA lawsuit has any chance or that the WTO litigation offers you any role for action ....

The best chances for self-improvement for US online gamblers is a massive campaign to shape the upcoming Regs in our favor as much as possible to limit the Banks' responsibility for "stopping" deposits via paper check or EFTs or wires.

Bug the PPA to mount a comments campaign.

The areas open for political action are small but there ARE potential gains to be realized. It is poor betting to count on iMEGA and LAZY to rely on the WTO.

[CountingMyOuts]

This scandal certainly doesn't help our cause. It plays right into the hands of Congressmen that believe that sumptuary laws are a good idea.

While it should be easy to separate out poker from sports betting and other forms of gambling, politically it's another reality.

[Skallagrim]

Cool down Milton, I did put a /images/graemlins/wink.gif after the Gaboonviper reference.

I also dont give Wexler's bill too much chance of passing in the near future. But I think it has a better chance (and is best for poker players) of all the current pending legislation. Other skill game operators (like yahoo, e.g.) should support the bill, because, as OBG has shown, it is virtually impossible to objectively distinguish their games from poker on a "skill v. chance" analysis. We poker players of course support the bill. More importantly, very few people OPPOSE legal wagering on games of skill. A vocal minority without a big vocal opposition can often get things done in DC, thats how the UIGEA itself came into existence.

So, anyway, we are back to a point I made way back when I first joined these forums: the key to getting poker explicitly legal is to move it from the gambling category to the skill category.

If that can be done, then all the hoopla over gambling being bad for sports does not impact our chances of success (whether good or bad).

Skallagrim

[jennaecks]

Using this logic is like saying no one should be able to drink now because Lidnesy Lohan got another DUI....

The small percentage can't control what the majority can do.

The majority are responsible. Whats the difference between spending a couple hundred or thousand on playing golf...going on vacation...or whatever

Its your hard your money....one should be able to enjoy it however one wants!

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Bug the banks, too. They're not real keen on this legislation, any more than they were on "Know Your Customer" in the late 90's.

[CountingMyOuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Using this logic is like saying no one should be able to drink now because Lidnesy Lohan got another DUI....

The small percentage can't control what the majority can do.

The majority are responsible. Whats the difference between spending a couple hundred or thousand on playing golf...going on vacation...or whatever

Its your hard your money....one should be able to enjoy it however one wants!

[/ QUOTE ]

You are preaching to the choir.

Unfortunately it's going to take a lot more than that to get where we want to be. The reality is that the "minority" is getting what it wants on this issue at the moment.

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
Using this logic is like saying no one should be able to drink now because Lidnesy Lohan got another DUI....

The small percentage can't control what the majority can do.



[/ QUOTE ]

One shoebomber now means I have to make sure I don't have holes in my socks whenever I take a flight.

[Skallagrim]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Using this logic is like saying no one should be able to drink now because Lidnesy Lohan got another DUI....

The small percentage can't control what the majority can do.



[/ QUOTE ]

One shoebomber now means I have to make sure I don't have holes in my socks whenever I take a flight.

[/ QUOTE ]

This one of my pet peeves too, but the question is what do we do about it. I am a bit to old to go marching in the streets (again) but I am just not going to roll over and accept stupidity either. Large scale changes happen (usually) in small steps and for lots of small reasons that eventually add up.

So even if Milton is right in his prediction, I hope he will continue to engage in the fight. If we dont win this one, maybe the next one....

Skallagrim

PS, on a lighter note, if any of those jihadists were capable of a something resembling a sense of humor, they would post some "instruction manuals" on their websites about how to make underwear into bombs. Nudist airlines anyone?

[MiltonFriedman]

Far from quiting the fight, I am trying to point out that the ONLY viable area for fighting is over the Regs. There is a public comment period, make your voice heard on behalf of poker as a skill game.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Far from quiting the fight, I am trying to point out that the ONLY viable area for fighting is over the Regs. There is a public comment period, make your voice heard on behalf of poker as a skill game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with the "ONLY", but I certainly agree with the idea of working the regs. We should all be writing NOW, per this week's action thread, once per week. When the regs are open for comments, we should comment a lot.