Top two multi way pot

[Jay_Whufc]

No reads on villian. What sort range do we put him on?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

Hero (SB): $24.75
BB: $52.90
UTG: $25.05
CO: $9.90
BTN: $24.90

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
UTG calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.15, BB checks

Flop: ($1.25) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $1.25</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $1.25, CO folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $5.50</font>, Hero ???

[LG87]

dont think he has a set. he would have raised preflop.
My guess is that the only thing that you have to be worried about is the straight. unfortunately for you 910 seems very likely in this case.

[Capone]

A set is unlikely unless its 88. What are you going to put him on 109?

I say a poosh here is g00t.

[TiltedFox]

A set would have raised pre in this position, so the only hand we're worried about is 910. I think that's a small enough part of Villans range to safely call and then re-evaluate on the turn. I think we're good here enough of the time to try and get it all in on the turn.

[monkover]

this def is a push or fold situation... I´m pushing but expection to be beat a good proportion of the time if villain calls. you always have 4 outs...

[monkeymaps]

I can see this as a push or fold situation can make an argument either way 910 is a large part of villans range but so is J8 /Q8/ combo flush draw.

Anyone like call flop check/raise all in on a safe turn card?

[monkover]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see this as a push or fold situation can make an argument either way 910 is a large part of villans range but so is J8 /Q8/ combo flush draw.

Anyone like call flop check/raise all in on a safe turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem here is that you have no idea where you are at in the hand if you call flop. villain might already have a made hand and the money is going to go in anyways. there are just too many cards that might come off that kill you action or that give villain the opprtunity to bluff you off your hand.

[mvdgaag]

he could have many hands: AQ/AJ/JT/J8/KT/AdXd... You limped PF so in his mind, even if you paired, he might have plenty FE because you likely don't have top kicker.

I push...

monkeymaps: What is a safe turn? If he's on a draw he'll check behind and we give him two cards... If he's got a set/straight we are spewing with a c/r.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can see this as a push or fold situation can make an argument either way 910 is a large part of villans range but so is J8 /Q8/ combo flush draw.

Anyone like call flop check/raise all in on a safe turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem here is that you have no idea where you are at in the hand if you call flop. villain might already have a made hand and the money is going to go in anyways. there are just too many cards that might come off that kill you action or that give villain the opprtunity to bluff you off your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you just seems a push on flop here doesnt get called by a worse hand often but I cant fold here so I prob push.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
he could have many hands: AQ/AJ/JT/J8/KT/AdXd... You limped PF so in his mind, even if you paired, he might have plenty FE because you likely don't have top kicker.

I push...

monkeymaps: What is a safe turn? If he's on a draw he'll check behind and we give him two cards... If he's got a set/straight we are spewing with a c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thought was we have a much bigger equity edge on a blank turn and the money goes in. I made the assumtion that villian would bet turn given his flop raise. It is risky but think the times that we are called we will be in better shape then the times our flop push is called if that makes any sense.


Thinking flop push is prob better though.

[monkover]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can see this as a push or fold situation can make an argument either way 910 is a large part of villans range but so is J8 /Q8/ combo flush draw.

Anyone like call flop check/raise all in on a safe turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem here is that you have no idea where you are at in the hand if you call flop. villain might already have a made hand and the money is going to go in anyways. there are just too many cards that might come off that kill you action or that give villain the opprtunity to bluff you off your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you just seems a push on flop here doesnt get called by a worse hand often but I cant fold here so I prob push.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are plenty of hands that i can see call us here. a lot of draws b/c pot odds are for idiots and donkeys love to call ai with draws, worse 2p. imo there are enough legit hands that call us to warrant a push

[terencetsao]

i push too, i believe pushing will be the +EV play in the long run

[mvdgaag]

I think i get you, but it doesn't make sense.

The gained equity edge is only gained because the hands you beat now (the draws) have only one card to come instead of two. But you were ahead of these hands and should be encouraging them to call. Instead you are giving them a free card and might not be able to get away when he catches something. It is better to make them pay. The hands that already beat you on the flop will still beat you on the turn and will still be calling...

So:
1) The hands that you are ahead of at the flop that might have called are not calling anymore with one card to come.
2) Those same hands get to get the next card free (or cheap if you count his bet)
3) You are not gaining anything on the hands that already beat you on the flop and we are still stacking off to these.

I can imagine if someone has a monster draw and more than 50% equity this would be a good play, because you are losing from a lot more hands on the flop than on the turn if its safe. But there is hardly ever a reason to put someone exactly on that.