NL50 - second pair on a paired board.

[restless]

Villain seems loose. openlimps a lot of pots. i've isolated a few times already. he's not overly aggressive, but not passive either (yeah great info i know..) I don't think he's a very strong player.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $37.80
BB: $24.80
UTG: $48.75
MP: $79.35
CO: $63.70
Hero (BTN): $50.70

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.25</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) T/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.50</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $7.00</font>, Hero calls $3.50

maybe the flop bet is small but i think it has pretty much the same effect as a 4.50-5 dollar bet. i wouldn't bet bigger with an overpair either. his minraise was pretty instant and to me that usually indicates that hes making a move with air (overs maybe) or perhaps a 6. of course he could have a T but i would think this type of player gets a bit tricky with it.

with overs I could 3bet here, but i didn't really like that with a made hand that might be the best here. anyone play the flop differently?

Turn: ($19.25) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $10.00</font>, Hero ?

I think this bet looks weak, maybe he's afraid of the K or it could be a suck-me-in kinda bet. whats my best move against his range? (which i think is 6x, Kx, Overs or Tx. fwiw i think he has a T ~10-20% of the time)

[Capone]

I think that your flop call is fine. I think you are trying to find weakness though. If he raises you on the flop, and makes a 1/2 pot bet on the turn, I'd give him credit for something. He could very well have the T, or the king may have very well helped him.

[Capone]

do we want to play a big pot with this hand?

Big Pots are for big hands. Small pots for small hands.

[prodonkey]

I'd 3 bet him on the flop.. people are usually full of crap on those flops, they just don't think u have anything.

[Capone]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 3 bet him on the flop.. people are usually full of crap on those flops, they just don't think u have anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 3 bets good on the flop. But as played its a fold on the turn dont you agree?

[restless]

[ QUOTE ]
do we want to play a big pot with this hand?

Big Pots are for big hands. Small pots for small hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

ye this is very fine and dandy, but in every hand i try to look for the most +EV move, not go by some broad general advice. if i'm ahead i have a big hand and if i'm behind i have a tiny hand.

ok i reread that. no offence meant if it came out that way. i just have a thing for these clichees (sp?)

thanks for the input. (i guess you're saying its a fold, right?)

[Capone]

I think we have to fold the turn here yes. And no offence taken of course we are trying to make the most +EV play. I don't see what legit hand we beat here though. After you called his flop bet would he just bet that turn with nothing?

[Capitan23]

I think flop is alright, i would probably give it up on turn.

[TIGERsrm]

Definately a fold on the turn.

[restless]

ok, it seems that the consensus is a fold. maybe your right i was looking for something that wasn't there but i actually pushed over him here... i was probably affected by his flop raise that seemed a lot like bs.
(at the time i thought it was brilliant but ive started to doubt that, hence the post)

Turn: ($19.25) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $10.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $41.45</font>, UTG folds
Uncalled bet of $31.45 returned to Hero

Pot Size: $39.25 ($1.95 Rake)

in retrospect i'm quite sure he just folded a worse hand so the raise has very little value (he's at most folding 6 outs). but, assuming you put this guy on a bluff or a worse hand, should i call turn and river or reraise here???

[FlyboyWhite]

Before you make the call on the flop you should think about how far you want to go with this hand. After check-raising you, you can probably expect that he'll come out firing something on the turn. More often than not that will happen. So, the question is whether or not you think he has a 10 or pocket sixes. If he doesn't, you want to seal the deal now. If he does, you want to fold obviously.

To really analyze this one we need two more pieces of information: has he check-raised anybody before (and if so what was the result); have you been pushing on the button.

Based on what we know, I would think that he was just playing at you. If he senses you are weak at all, the minimum check-raise would get you to fold. He is fairly certain that you don't have a 10 in your hand. He is probably putting you on overs or a smaller pair based on your pre-flop raise.

I would take the shot and re-raise him another $21 (so you are putting in $24.50). You don't need him hanging around with overs. If one hits on the turn (like it did), your eights start looking pretty small.

- Flyboy

[geoncic]

you would have heard people telling you to push if it ended up at showdown and he showed 99 :P

I probably would have let the turn go though.

[restless]

[ QUOTE ]
Before you make the call on the flop you should think about how far you want to go with this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i couldn't agree more. i actually did and i was sure that folding would be a mistake. didn't really know how far i was willing to take it, just that i didn't want it to end now /images/graemlins/smile.gif. that tells you something about the range i gave him on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
After check-raising you, you can probably expect that he'll come out firing something on the turn. More often than not that will happen. So, the question is whether or not you think he has a 10 or pocket sixes. If he doesn't, you want to seal the deal now. If he does, you want to fold obviously.

To really analyze this one we need two more pieces of information: has he check-raised anybody before (and if so what was the result); have you been pushing on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes i had been quite aggro on the button. this is probably also a reason why i felt it could be just a frustration raise.
[ QUOTE ]

Based on what we know, I would think that he was just playing at you. If he senses you are weak at all, the minimum check-raise would get you to fold. He is fairly certain that you don't have a 10 in your hand. He is probably putting you on overs or a smaller pair based on your pre-flop raise.

I would take the shot and re-raise him another $21 (so you are putting in $24.50). You don't need him hanging around with overs. If one hits on the turn (like it did), your eights start looking pretty small.

- Flyboy

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the reply i like your analysis. maybe this is just a judgement call, where one just has to trust a read or whatever.

[FlyboyWhite]

Definitely a judgment call. If you had been trending aggressive on the button he might have put you on nothing but smoke. Another reason to push back and end it. Those smaller pockets are tricky to play, but this kind of a flop "tends" to be favorable for you.