NL25 - Contibet or not?

[OMGJuliet]

Hand 1)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($52.25)
MP ($16.70)
CO ($29.85)
Button ($6.60)
SB ($25)
Hero ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, MP calls $1.25.

Flop: ($3.10) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $2.25</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3.10


Hand 2)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($26.60)
CO ($3.50)
Button ($37.70)
Hero ($25.35)
BB ($10)
UTG ($34.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $1.5</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $2


What hands does he flatcall with preflop to fold to one bet on this flop? He won't fold a PP, his SC might have hit and also he probably has a draw.
If he calls i am oop and don't have too many outs in both cases. Would you contibet in this spot? Since my contbets get reraised 60% generally i thought it'd be better to c/f here.

[prodonkey]

Well I don't raise JQo out of my bb usually.

I would not c-bet the 1st flop.. and I would the 2nd.

[OMGJuliet]

Can you explain why plz? Both, explain why not to try to steal the pot preflop w/ QJo and why to contibet or not.
more opinions?

[prodonkey]

board in hand 1 is pretty coordinated.. no flush draws though. I don't c-bet flops like those often because villains pretty much call with anything putting you on AK or 2 big cards. 2 pairs and straights are very possible, I will c-bet if I know villain likes to limp with big broadway cards.. but this kind of flop probably hit a limper, a lot more than it did you.

2nd flop nothing is really connected, you don't really have to worry about 2 pair unless it's 34 on that board. There really aren't any draws. It would be better if the 9 were paint, but it's still a board I'm c-betting, and I might double barrel if they like to call with stuff like 5's here.

[dersl]

always make a contunuation bet headsup, any2 on any flop

hand 1 preflop raise is standard imo

[prodonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
always make a contunuation bet headsup, any2 on any flop

hand 1 preflop raise is standard imo

[/ QUOTE ]

I think c-betting 100% of the time on any flop is a leak.

[dersl]

I'm not c-betting the flop 100% of the time, only when heads-up...
there is absolutely no way that you can make an educated guess like you tried to do without PT-stats to guess his range of hands.
its a big leak not to cbet headsup!

[mvdgaag]

Even headsup it's a leak imo... unless your pfr range is very tight so you'll have a big pair a large percentage of the time... Than your leak would be in raising to few hands.

EDIT: HU anything between 70% and 95% depending on your style is fine IMO...

[TITHEAD]

I C/F these flops unless you have reads on the players. Unless you have any kind or read or play time with the vilans then C/F is standard.

Personally i continuation bet with pairs and A X

[Brian O'Nolan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think c-betting 100% of the time on any flop is a big leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

[hennnerz]

[ QUOTE ]
I C/F these flops unless you have reads on the players. Unless you have any kind or read or play time with the vilans then C/F is standard.

Personally i continuation bet with pairs and A X

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Hand 2?

Some flops it is TOTALLY pointless ie. 22 board KQJ. I hate betting that flop, so don't. Here I will sometimes bet hand 1, depending on villain and previous hands against him.

Hand 2 I would always bet this flop.

[CobraGoat]

fold PF, yuck. as played cbet both.

[Go_BroKe]

cbet both of them
cbet 90% of the flops headsup

[Capone]

I c-bet both here as well.

I would really check out ur pf play though.

[ama0330]

I cbet both but hand 1 raise is no good.

[OMGJuliet]

60% of my cbets get raised or checkraised. you usually dont see the villains hand unless you have some kind of nutz. today i had the following case:

villain limps, i raise AK he calls.
flop 259
he checks, i 2/3PS, he c/r minimum i call.
turn blank, he pushes for his last 7$, i make a tilt-call bcuz im pissed that my contbet got raised like 10 times in a row, i call w/ overcards AK.
he shows AQo. i win w/ highcard ace.

thats why:
- cbetting more than 90% is a huge leak on nl25 sh. you donate more money to the checkraisers than you get from folding. you give up tons of equity w bet/folding.
- if they got some kind of OCs or PP they'll stay in the pot 75% of the time.

it's a while ago but it'll still be accurrate: i noted every contbetsituation over like 15k hands and wrote down how often my contbets get checkraised or raised. it is indeed 60% which is a lot. there is no way they flop twopair or a set 60% of the time.
then i started 3betting raised flops, where i was the PFR. it didn't help at all, only the variance went way up with the 3bets as the pots got bigger.

[monkover]

i´m pretty much cbetting both flops. the board is not too wet