need a multiway river bet size

[Guruman]

I should have raised pf, but i still suck at nl so please forgive me for that. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $31.50
UTG+1: $25
CO: $22.60
Button: $9.65
Guruman: $68.55
BB: $19.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Guruman is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, 3 folds, Guruman calls $0.15 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $0.6)</font>, BB checks.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.75, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Guruman bets $0.75</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($3, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Guruman bets $2</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($9, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Guruman bets ...</font>

I think a psb into two players shows a ton of strength and can therefore only be called by weaker flushes or really terribly played rivered straights. Given that it's probably still the best move since i'm hoping to stack someone rather than get paid off by top pr right?

Also it seems obv to me that I can never check here since straights/sets may check behind but pay off a bet.

[homeslice]

As played bet $4-$5...

[barryc83]

$7

[Guruman]

you guys arent so good at spelling out your thoughts eh?

[barryc83]

you have a K high flush, bet as much as you think they will call. Id bet $7 possible more if I know they are stations who call with any 9x/2pr.

[Profish2285]

I think I like ~$7 for the reasons you stated. Sets and straights will pay you off, so you might as well go for max value. Any more than ~$7 and you might scare people off tho. Some people like to bet smaller but unless you are very confident you are getting called by one pair if you bet in the $5 range, its better off to just go for the most you can get from a decent range of hands. If this was against one person I would bet smaller as the range of hands out there obviously decrease, but you have to assume one of the two villains has a decent hand.

[antman1437]

$4 or 5 for definite value. $6 at the very most.

[vixticator]

I'd bet about $7. You should have raised PF with one person acting but if 3 or 4 people limp here I don't mind completing now and then with this hand. Hard to play mutliway out of the small blind. One of them looks to be calling here since everyone is still there on the river. Pot size bet is fine too. I wouldn't go really low like $4 here. This board certainly hit somebody and you are likely getting paid off so might as well get max value.

[jessyj07]

[ QUOTE ]
$4 or 5 for definite value. $6 at the very most.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree and I also agree with vix that this should have been raised preflop. It's very unlikely anybody has anything so betting to much more than half pot is dumb. You would have heard from a set/flush earlier and how would people get to this river with a 3?

[Gelford]

Either go 2/3 pot or just shove ... holla !

[bung]

would the flop be a c/c by any chance?

[jessyj07]

[ QUOTE ]
would the flop be a c/c by any chance?

[/ QUOTE ]never. 2 overs and 2nd nut draw is an easy bet to build pot and against retards we're getting all in on the flop.

[wulfpacker21]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$4 or 5 for definite value. $6 at the very most.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree and I also agree with vix that this should have been raised preflop. It's very unlikely anybody has anything so betting to much more than half pot is dumb. You would have heard from a set/flush earlier and how would people get to this river with a 3?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Brian O'Nolan]

You aren't going to get a good answer to this question because it's so dependent on table conditions and the specific opponents. Is it a more passive table where anything more than a 1/2 pot river bet will raise eyebrows? Is there a nutjob at the table who's potting everything on the river? Generally speaking I would bet ~ 2/3 pot here. You'll almost never get an overcall from a pot bet on the river, otherwise I'd like that option more.

Anyway your biggest mistake in this hand is not going to have been your river bet size but your turn bet size. 90% of the time if these guys are calling a 2/3 PSB when the flush card hits they're calling full pot and voila, more money from your river value bet.

As for pf, completing here is fine, especially if you're still learning NL. No need to force yourself into playing big pots OOP.

[Guruman]

thx all.

I ended up betting 8 and buying the pot, but much of what I've been reading says to go for stacks and less for value from top pr, so I was making that kind of wager.

[Profish2285]

Its not really that you wanna go for stacks here as much as you wanna get paid off by 2 pair/straight/set. You could argue for a smaller bet if you were pretty confident you would get called in two places, but thats hardly ever a guarantee. That is why I would bet around $7 as it shouldnt scare off a villain but yet if you only get called in one spot youre gonna get some value out of your hand. Sorry it didnt work out this time.