25NL VIDEO: 4 TABLES AP [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 07:49 PM

25NL 45 min vid at AP, kinda made it to help look for some leaks and im also sure it can help some that are strugglin at 25NL and below. I suck at explaining things but i tried my best so any questions or berating is welcome (if you have a ?/comment about a particular hand plz include the time of that hand kthx)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RJ1K7Z04

kaz2107

07-23-2007, 08:00 PM

kool. there better b some fun situations cuz im bout to watch this bizitch

demon102

07-23-2007, 08:23 PM

how do I watch this? do I have to be a memeber or somthing?

there seems to be no button to push to open the file

Mariogs379

07-23-2007, 08:31 PM

i downloaded it and get the audio but i don't have the video
what's the deal?

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how do I watch this? do I have to be a memeber or somthing?

there seems to be no button to push to open the file

[/ QUOTE ]

just open the link and put in the code click download, then you will have to wait like 40 secs or somethin and then click free download

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i downloaded it and get the audio but i don't have the video
what's the deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

what you using to play the vid?? Im using Windowns media player and it works fine

kaz2107

07-23-2007, 08:37 PM

ok well mine worked fine. here r my comments 25 mins into it. if u want me to elaborate on stuff and discuss more i deff will. just kinda jotted some quick thoughts as i watched.

415- don’t raise 67s from bb

730- Q7… u don’t mind a call. he calls all day and will therefore be playin oop tha whole hand. Thus it is good to raise that

915- mono tone board r tha nutz to cbet

945- betting the river gets nothing to call that u beat imo. That guy is nitty and isn’t a retard so u aren’t getting value out of n e thing there.

1015- one of the spots ive been c/r in a decent amount of the time. Especially if he isn’t utg.

1130- 3bet to 3.

1545- I prolly fold to tha raise on the flop since we r oop and and getting wack ass odds.

1750- why r u not cbetting. Like no hands hit. Id wanna 2nd barrel for [censored] sake.

2000- tha guy is nitty and prolly not callin 3 bets weak. Really the only hand he would call a 3 bet that isn’t gonna call a cbet there is AK. Over pairs r a hige part of his range. Ive stopped cbetting in those spots a ton

2250- I fire that turn to an utg limp ALL day. He has a mediocre hand EVERYTIME

and as a general note i think u r lookin to raise to much from the blinds. hands like AT and KJ i prefer to just check behind or complete rather then play a raised pot oop and with a mediocre hand.

ZingZhang

07-23-2007, 08:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i downloaded it and get the audio but i don't have the video
what's the deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

No expert lol but I think you need a codec, just google; 'free codecs' and k-lite or something should be fine. Looking forward to watching this, love new vids /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 08:59 PM

yea the J3 hand when i have a boat on the AxJAJ board, I put him on a missed draw which he obv wasnt callin w/. I agree shouldve just checked there.

1545 w/ the flush draw i was talkn, almost timin out at other tables basically all a mess then i realized after i called that odds sucked so shouldve just folded.

1750 i think is the 26 hand?? i think i had an active image at the time and thought he would c/c w/ like a midpair hand but then again if he does probably folds to a 2nd barrel

2000 yea i was really debatin to check or bet there, def wasnt a good board to bet esp prob given his 3bet callin range.

2250 lol yea i wanted to fire again almost did but figured i didnt really have a good read on him and wasnt sure what he was c/c w/ on the flop that limps UTG.

fees

07-23-2007, 09:02 PM

this vid better kick asssssssss

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 09:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this vid better kick asssssssss

[/ QUOTE ]

lol you guys have too much expectations...i suck at teh poker

fees

07-23-2007, 09:05 PM

hire me to coach ldo

fees

07-23-2007, 09:32 PM

i found some leaks!
First thing I noticed is u cbet AQo into 987 2 diamonds.. dont especially OOP

Also i think u said AJo isnt great hand, it is

Also isolate 2 li mpers with j7s from CO, and deffffffffffinitly open k10o from co, ur 2 tight

fees

07-23-2007, 09:36 PM

u just said u raised only 2 steal, i see this all over uNL when they talk about stealing... just b/c its called stealing doesnt mean u need to play unplayable hands.. raise 97o or something, nevvvvvvver ever raise 62o

fees

07-23-2007, 09:43 PM

I might right an article on "stealing" soon, but an abridged version is you raise some junkish hands like 86s b/c its profitable-not to win prf always, though thats nice

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 09:44 PM

yea i was unsure w/ the AQ since the board was so ugly

the AJ hand i think i did say it isnt a great hand but i was talkn about in that particular situation..shorty raises UTG whom hasnt raised much up to that point

J7s meh i think thats marginal i dont think its that big of a deal. The KTo i normally raise it but i think button was short and loose??

lol 2 tight?? durnin the vid i was runnin 24/22 (on avg tho like 20/18)...but i guess im just a wannabe sLAG

fees

07-23-2007, 09:47 PM

I didnt finish the whole thing but you were short handed for some of the time, i just cant imagine raising 62o otb and not k10 on the co or j7s to limpers

prodonkey

07-23-2007, 09:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hire me to coach ldo

[/ QUOTE ]

you really need to stop spamming this crap. I think I've read you wanting to be someones coach like 10 times since I've been back in the last week.

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 09:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
u just said u raised only 2 steal, i see this all over uNL when they talk about stealing... just b/c its called stealing doesnt mean u need to play unplayable hands.. raise 97o or something, nevvvvvvver ever raise 62o

[/ QUOTE ]

ya i kno, i suck at explaining things in the vid I did say i raise to steal here and there a lot but I dont raise those marginal hands only trying to steal. And i think the only only unplayable hand i raised was 62o and i admit that was pretty much just to steal given the blinds were nitty. But that was a very very very marginal raise at best and somethin i hardly ever do.

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 09:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt finish the whole thing but you were short handed for some of the time, i just cant imagine raising 62o otb and not k10 on the co or j7s to limpers

[/ QUOTE ]

yea KT i probably shouldve raised but i was unsure b/c of the button, J7s honestly maybe i suck but this has to be a very very marginal raise?? i mean we are on the CO i cant remember if button was loose or not but we arent gaurenteed position and yea there are a few limpers which makes me think we are goin to the flop multiway possibly OOP w/ J7s?? call me a nit but i dont think its that big of a deal. Yea 62o sucks and i admit i shouldve folded

fees

07-23-2007, 10:01 PM

fees

07-23-2007, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didnt finish the whole thing but you were short handed for some of the time, i just cant imagine raising 62o otb and not k10 on the co or j7s to limpers

[/ QUOTE ]

yea KT i probably shouldve raised but i was unsure b/c of the button, J7s honestly maybe i suck but this has to be a very very marginal raise?? i mean we are on the CO i cant remember if button was loose or not but we arent gaurenteed position and yea there are a few limpers which makes me think we are goin to the flop multiway possibly OOP w/ J7s?? call me a nit but i dont think its that big of a deal. Yea 62o sucks and i admit i shouldve folded

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its a +ev play.. you have position and a hand that has decent flop potential, also they are limping which is a weak play, and generally this players are weak postflop, most hands wont last past a cbet, but to each his own

Antinome

07-23-2007, 10:05 PM

Raise less from the SB to steal BB. You win less so risk less, and it doesn't affect calling % much IME. This is the one place I don't think 4BB+1/per applies. I've been a winner from the SB for nearly 2 years now and I attribute a lot of that to this.

You avoid small stacks too much. Small stacks are generally bad and we want to be in pots with them even if it means:

1. limping into them so they call
2. calling their undersized bets OOP
3. Raising mediocre hands they will probably call.

Maybe that's heretical. In general I spend a lot more time figuring out which players I want to be in hands with and what sorts of exploitable leaks they have than whether my cards are good.

I see a lot less floating than I do, and more threebetting donkbets. I'm not sure that's a leak on either of our parts, just an observation.

Not enough hands went to showdown for whatever reason. Maybe they all fold too much. At any rate, if I saw 25-33% call cbet I would think that was small and be raising nearly anything vaguely playable. The top 35% anyway for sure.

That AQ hand. whatever, it was marginal either way. Do it and move on. Second guessing yourself while you are playing, looking up stats... Totally -EV. Really that's by far the worst leak I saw. My brother does that too; plays good, hits a marginal hand and spends the next orbit on 4 tables doing post-game analysis. f$%# that. Seriously.

Generally I think you were playing too tight at tight tables.

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 10:26 PM

yea i dont float all that often, though i will do it against the right ppl. But tbh i dont really recall any spots where it was good to float in the vid. If you could point out any particular hands that would be nice /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Unless your just refering to floatin when donked into. I dont really get into alot of spots to float since i dont really call pfr all that often and in nonraised pots i dunno if floatin is a good idea??

Yea ive noticed like after im uncertain about a hand i do think about it for a while and check over stats, re-look at the HH, etc. and i admit it does draw my attention away from the current situations...its a bad habit and ive been tryin to do less of it lately.

I think i do also tightin up/aviod spots w/ short stacks especially pf too much. Your right short stacks generally suck and are usually willing to get AI w/ even wider ranges esp postflop.

i have been told i raise from the SB too much when folded to me. So you advocate just foldin?? I usually just raise from the SB when the BB is tight.

AND YES my went to SD % is like 19-20% on avg and in this vid even lower...i dont know why?!?!? i usually play pretty aggro so im guessin im foldin/gettin villians to fold alot on the flop/turn or I need to start callin lighter on the river when the turn checks through?? I dunno it annoys me that i have such a low went to SD % but i dunno why??

21SuicideKing21

07-23-2007, 10:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hire me to coach ldo

[/ QUOTE ]

you really need to stop spamming this crap. I think I've read you wanting to be someones coach like 10 times since I've been back in the last week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah in the past day, whenever someone has said that they are struggling you have asked to coach them. Are you seriously that broke that you need to coach people?

With the video, I agree with the previous comments made, but I think you have really bad table selection, granted I'm not sure how the games are at AP, but I thought those tables you were at were really bad and not very profitable for you. Keep posting more videos, this is the only way to work on your game.

prodonkey

07-23-2007, 11:14 PM

"--coaching. You can say alot of stuff in your profile. Other than that, coaches aren't allowed to pimp their services, nor troll for students."

From the sticky

prodonkey

07-23-2007, 11:16 PM

Watching video now... how do you guys play with different seats on different tables.. I have to spend 5 seconds looking to see what your hands are most times.

Gelford

07-23-2007, 11:21 PM

Two comments without seing the vid

[ QUOTE ]

Also i think u said AJo isnt great hand, it is

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for the record, I am no fan of AJ either. (especially facing an UTG raise, if that was the case)

[ QUOTE ]
or j7s to limpers

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise J7s 90% of the time in late position first in, but with limpers I consider it a fold.

Holla !

fees

07-23-2007, 11:27 PM

You'd rather steal than isolate? Is there any hand where this is the opposite situation.. (like are you always tighter when isolating as opposed to opening)

Gelford

07-23-2007, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You'd rather steal than isolate? Is there any hand where this is the opposite situation.. (like are you always tighter when isolating as opposed to opening)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isolating is what I do at a tight table with good players and one passive fish, but then I might be tempted to play RIO hands with highcard strength ... KTo and such, which I normally shy away from.

I have no idea if the limper in question was such a fish, but you use the word limpers here, so I am ussuming more than one limper.

J7s does not really play that well postflop, I mean what can you hit ???

In a stealing situation it is fine as

1) you take down the blinds
2) you get it HU and can take a shot with a cbet
3) a rare time you will hit a draw and can do some funky [censored] and get psycho aggro

The fact that 1) happens some of the time increases you winrate and makes it ok.

But by isolating with J7s you are more or less relying on taking it away after seing a flop, as villian(s) have already shown interest in their cards.

It is a preference thing, in cardrunners vids and some of the SSNL vid, you will hear the mantra, punish the weak limpers repeated often, so you are not the only one doing this.

But personally I am no great fan of it.

BevillTheDevil

07-23-2007, 11:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]

With the video, I agree with the previous comments made, but I think you have really bad table selection, granted I'm not sure how the games are at AP, but I thought those tables you were at were really bad and not very profitable for you. Keep posting more videos, this is the only way to work on your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i usually have good table selection and i normally dont play 25NL soo i just clicked a few tables i thought would be ok for a vid. AP doesnt get nearly as much traffic as like ftp or PS and i was playin in the middle of the day so obv the tables arent goin to be as good. Plus like i said in the vid some 25NL fish might have moved up to 50NL to get lucky and win the BBJ. Tables did suck and i kept tryin to find better ones maybe ill make a vid durnin primetime or somethin. And not profitable for me?? meh i dunno Id consider myself better than atleast 90% of villians in the vid by maybe that just being over confident. Plus i ended up runnin at like 8ptbb/100 during the vid and i didnt think i was playin my best or runnin good or anything /images/graemlins/smile.gif. lol but this is irrelivent b/c of sample size obv.

Gelford

07-23-2007, 11:54 PM

Question:

Is it really necesarry to be wasting energy table selecting at 25NL ... I mean if you can't beat any table, shouldn't you be looking for improvement instead of better tables ?

prodonkey

07-24-2007, 12:24 AM

you don't know how often I sit at a table that averages 30+ vpip.. 30 min later it's at 17 or less.. what's the point in continuing to play after it's full of nits.

tiger_hall

07-24-2007, 08:51 AM

what codec do i need to run this video... tried VLC media player, windows, quicktime none of them work, installed some codecs for windows media player and still no video or sound

TITHEAD

07-24-2007, 08:54 AM

Gonna watch this later and will post comments then.

tiger_hall

07-24-2007, 09:05 AM

please somebody tell me how to watch this... i have sound on windows media player but no video... what codec do i need??

prodonkey

07-24-2007, 09:09 AM

ask bevil what he encoded it with.. I'd try xvid. vlc should be able to play it though.

fees

07-24-2007, 09:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You'd rather steal than isolate? Is there any hand where this is the opposite situation.. (like are you always tighter when isolating as opposed to opening)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isolating is what I do at a tight table with good players and one passive fish, but then I might be tempted to play RIO hands with highcard strength ... KTo and such, which I normally shy away from.

I have no idea if the limper in question was such a fish, but you use the word limpers here, so I am ussuming more than one limper.

J7s does not really play that well postflop, I mean what can you hit ???

In a stealing situation it is fine as

1) you take down the blinds
2) you get it HU and can take a shot with a cbet
3) a rare time you will hit a draw and can do some funky [censored] and get psycho aggro

The fact that 1) happens some of the time increases you winrate and makes it ok.

But by isolating with J7s you are more or less relying on taking it away after seing a flop, as villian(s) have already shown interest in their cards.

It is a preference thing, in cardrunners vids and some of the SSNL vid, you will hear the mantra, punish the weak limpers repeated often, so you are not the only one doing this.

But personally I am no great fan of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gelford this is a 25NL game, players dont realize you widen up to isolate a player and take it down in position with a cbet, I think you're missing value here by not raising to isolate and the cbetting to take it down, players are generally weak postflop and will normally fold to resistance without something to play with, and will not bluff raise, or semibluff raise the flop on draw, so at the least we can get to the turn just putting in one bet on the flop. Also since our hand is somewhat connected and sooted theres all kinds of gutshots and backdoors we can rely on in the event that it does get to a turn.

fees

07-24-2007, 09:14 AM

try typing divx codec into google, or type camtasia into google and goto the techsmith homepage and download their codecs

tiger_hall

07-24-2007, 09:39 AM

got it working now... will give review later

tiger_hall

07-24-2007, 10:32 AM

you play very similar to myself and think pretty much the same as well. i think ur game is pretty good only a few pointers......
12:48 im probably checking my boat there... i think by doing this we can get paid off by pocket pairs on the river with a value bet and u have got the high full house so no need to worry...
20:15 i think he is calling here with a pocket pair or A* and will shove to any cbet.. i prefer to check here and see what button does as they obv have a strong hand to call reraise.. if button bets i fold and if they check they have missed or low pocket pair and evaluate turn
22:50 i think that ace is a very good card for you and is a defo cbet...
36:00 i agree the board just sucks fold
41:00 i probably check into him... and see what he does.. its not a good situation to be in OOP and with a nitty player behind.... u beat AJ rele i dont see this with weak ace.. maybe a set played badly.. check turn he checks, check call river
45:00 raise him is correct, ur felting if he has teh five tbh... board is soo drawy cud be soo many hands...
hope this helps

Nemesis69

07-24-2007, 10:47 AM

Downloading. Will comment later.

Capone

07-24-2007, 11:57 AM

ill take a look

Antinome

07-24-2007, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i have been told i raise from the SB too much when folded to me. So you advocate just foldin?? I usually just raise from the SB when the BB is tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

No,I like that you raise in the SB to steal the BB. I mean you raise 4-4.5BB to win 1BB, but you should raise 3-3.5BB to win 1BB. You have to succeed a lot less often so you can do it more. If betting more buys more FE that I can see betting more, but in my experience that isn't the case.

kaz2107

07-24-2007, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You'd rather steal than isolate? Is there any hand where this is the opposite situation.. (like are you always tighter when isolating as opposed to opening)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isolating is what I do at a tight table with good players and one passive fish, but then I might be tempted to play RIO hands with highcard strength ... KTo and such, which I normally shy away from.

I have no idea if the limper in question was such a fish, but you use the word limpers here, so I am ussuming more than one limper.

J7s does not really play that well postflop, I mean what can you hit ???

In a stealing situation it is fine as

1) you take down the blinds
2) you get it HU and can take a shot with a cbet
3) a rare time you will hit a draw and can do some funky [censored] and get psycho aggro

The fact that 1) happens some of the time increases you winrate and makes it ok.

But by isolating with J7s you are more or less relying on taking it away after seing a flop, as villian(s) have already shown interest in their cards.

It is a preference thing, in cardrunners vids and some of the SSNL vid, you will hear the mantra, punish the weak limpers repeated often, so you are not the only one doing this.

But personally I am no great fan of it.

[/ QUOTE ]gelf-

ive been doin this alot. u get 2 limpers who play like 40 10 .5 and one calls ur preflop raise. they just c/f like 3/4ths of tha pots. they r playin oop with a wide range of hands. there is no possibility they can b profitable in this situation.

jonyy6788

07-24-2007, 03:08 PM

ya me/Fees decided last week that isolating limpers is mega +EV at uNL

BevillTheDevil

07-24-2007, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you play very similar to myself and think pretty much the same as well. i think ur game is pretty good only a few pointers......
12:48 im probably checking my boat there... i think by doing this we can get paid off by pocket pairs on the river with a value bet and u have got the high full house so no need to worry...
20:15 i think he is calling here with a pocket pair or A* and will shove to any cbet.. i prefer to check here and see what button does as they obv have a strong hand to call reraise.. if button bets i fold and if they check they have missed or low pocket pair and evaluate turn
22:50 i think that ace is a very good card for you and is a defo cbet...
36:00 i agree the board just sucks fold
41:00 i probably check into him... and see what he does.. its not a good situation to be in OOP and with a nitty player behind.... u beat AJ rele i dont see this with weak ace.. maybe a set played badly.. check turn he checks, check call river
45:00 raise him is correct, ur felting if he has teh five tbh... board is soo drawy cud be soo many hands...
hope this helps

[/ QUOTE ]

ya i pretty much agree w/ everything you said /images/graemlins/smile.gif. But the AQ hand against the nit are you c/f the turn?? cause i hate to c/c both streets there. If we c/c both streets i think we are probably behind and i think most the time he is only raising us on the turn w/ hands that beat us.

Gelford

07-24-2007, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
gelf-

ive been doin this alot. u get 2 limpers who play like 40 10 .5 and one calls ur preflop raise. they just c/f like 3/4ths of tha pots.
I don't think we disagree Kaz

[ QUOTE ]

Isolating is what I do at a tight table with good players and one passive fish, but then I might be tempted to play RIO hands with highcard strength ... KTo and such, which I normally shy away from.

[/ QUOTE ]

You discribe a 40/10 limpers, one fish two fish .. holla ... fish is the key word

[ QUOTE ]

they r playin oop with a wide range of hands. there is no possibility they can b profitable in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question is who they are ... if you have a 22/10 player and a 25/15 player limping, then I am not sure that playing J7s for a raise is profitable, unless you have a really strong read, that they are weaktight postflop.

But then again, I have a tendency to play with a very ragged image, so people don't respect my bets (Bastards!)

fees

07-24-2007, 04:30 PM

johnny write an article about isolating weak/loose uNL fish and put both our names on it.. GO!

jonyy6788

07-24-2007, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
johnny write an article about isolating weak/loose uNL fish and put both our names on it.. GO!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol there's not much to say

1) they limp
2) they suck
3) they're OOP
4) we raise, we take initiative
5) c-bet missed flops, profit
6) nail flops with T8s, profit
7) overpairs/tptk, profit

JoseyWales

07-24-2007, 04:41 PM

Thanks for the vid. I think your AQ was beat when mr. nit min-raised your ass on turn. Question about AP. You were playing 25NL but max BI was 50. Is that standard at AP?

BevillTheDevil

07-24-2007, 04:49 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=3661078

thats a pretty good article/disscussion about isolating but im sure another 1 wouldnt hurt /images/graemlins/smile.gif...

but that J7s hand that you say to isolate fees. Both the limpers i think were both LAG not so much weak/passive. But the players to my left were all tight so I was probably gainin position most of the time but both limpers being loose makes me think im goin to the flop multiway and we probably wont hit a good flop most the time to cbet multiway w/ this hand.

If 1 of the limpers was loose/passive and other was fairly tight and doesnt call pfr to often i think the pfr w/ J7s wouldve been much better...but yea the idea of isolating is pretty sick but i dont like it in this particular situation.