Cato Forum on WTO issue.

[Legislurker]

http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=3822

Im still undecided if i can make it, its an 8 hour drive, but Id like to hear Mendel in person. I don't think it will be on CSPAN /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

[Uglyowl]

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If you can't make it to the Cato Institute, watch this forum live online.

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[oldbookguy]

Thanks for reminding me of this.
ALSO, we all need to e-mail our reps in the Senate and House to make them aware of this and suggest they either attend or watch.

I sent the following to all (plus the text of the Cato news release:

On Wednesday, July 25, 2007 the CATO Institute, a very respectable Washington Think Tank will be holding a Policy Discussion regarding the recent WTO ruling in the matter of Antigua-Barbuda v. the U.S. over the dispute of Cross Border Supply of Gaming.

Though I feel your office should have someone in attendance, it may be viewed online as well.

The CATO Press Release: www.cato.org (http://www.cato.org) /
http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=3822

obg

[Jay Cohen]

The USTR or a representative from the US Government declined to participate. What a surprise!

[Legislurker]

Jay, you expecting a press release today on Antigua's submission of its sanctions request to the committee meeting today?

[TheEngineer]

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If you can't make it to the Cato Institute, watch this forum live online.

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"Cato forums are broadcast live over the Internet. Broadcasts are archived 24 to 48 hours after the event has completed."

The archived video will be at www.cato.org/realaudio/audiopages.html (http://www.cato.org/realaudio/audiopages.html)

[oldbookguy]

Major Wager has a good current article today on this @
http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-ha...gainst-u-s.html (http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/152681-antigua-asks-wto-authorize-us-3-4-billion-trade-sanctions-against-u-s.html)

from the story:
Millan said Washington accepted that U.S. gambling laws were not in compliance with its WTO obligations. But he said Antigua's request for retaliation was unnecessary because the U.S. was negotiating compensation with all interested WTO members — despite having originally argued that it was exempt from sanctions or having to pay compensation.

In communications / letters we need to play this part in bold up as harming American Citizens and further placing American businesses at a decided disadvantage in the world market!

obg

[tangled]

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Major Wager has a good current article today on this @
http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-ha...gainst-u-s.html (http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/152681-antigua-asks-wto-authorize-us-3-4-billion-trade-sanctions-against-u-s.html)

from the story:
Millan said Washington accepted that U.S. gambling laws were not in compliance with its WTO obligations. But he said Antigua's request for retaliation was unnecessary because the U.S. was negotiating compensation with all interested WTO members — despite having originally argued that it was exempt from sanctions or having to pay compensation.

In communications / letters we need to play this part in bold up as harming American Citizens and further placing American businesses at a decided disadvantage in the world market!

obg

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Wouldn’t any compensation have to be approved by Congress?

And wouldn’t any compensation be tantamount to a subsidization of online Horse Race betting and online lottery sales as it’s the statutory protection of these industries that has caused the problem, and the removal of this legal protection that would make this problem dissolve away?

[JPFisher55]

Neither Congress nor the rest of US government have anything to do with the compensation. It is in the form of permitting Antiqua to levy tariffs against some US good or service, subsidize some Antiqua industry that competes with US or, in Antiqua'a case ignore US intellectual property law to permit pirated software, music etc. These actions would normally violate WTO, but might be permitted to Antiqua as compensation.
However, the US could then retaliate against Antiqua but doing so would violate WTO.
I am unsure if the WTO can survive if the US ignores it to that extent or even continues its present course in this dispute.

[tangled]

I don't think I made my questions clear enough. The "compensation" I was refering to was the one from the article cited by OBG. My interpretation is that the US is going to try to just payoff the complaints against them. For example, Antigua wants $3+ billion, so the US offers, say $2 billion. In exchange for the easy cash Antigua would (hypothetically) agree not to sell cheap I-Pods.

Since Congress controls the "purse strings", a payoff/compensation would have to be approved by Congress. At least, that is what I'm asking.

Is that more clear?

[oldbookguy]

This I believe to be correct, congress will need to approve this based on a meeting sometime back with Sen. Rockefeller's office.

From what I gathered, it may be solely a Senate issue though since it involves a treaty, though this is a trade agreement, and may require both.

There is a good thread in the archives of this meeting.

obg

[Legislurker]

One thing to bear in mind is this has NEVER been done before.

Another is the timing of withdrawing commitments and sanctions. Antigua is entitled to sanctions UNTIL the negotiations are complete with ALL parties. I think given the EU's track record helping small countries at the WTO they may drag their feet and demand the maximum to make this as painful for the US as possible. India and China(via Macao) have pending complaints with the US at the WTO now, so they arent going to help them out. Japan and Australia are in for self-interest as well, and Canada and the US ALWAYS have a trade dispute going.
Remember, the USTR has lied, lied, and lied at every stage, so taking any position they have as truth would be naive. Harrahs has Veroneau(spelling) on their payroll, and he is the spokesman.
I think if the Executive wanted to, they could have the Treasury pay Antigua straight up. The treay was approved and they may be able to just give them Treasury bonds, then send the bill to Congress for a treaty they approved. Its not a question of going ot Congress, they are good at finding ways to circumvent the Constitution. Congress will have to go at them, and that will doesn't exist in the Senate. Oldbookguy's talks with Rockerfeller are the best thing I've seen, and thats lukewarm sounding/pleading past ignorance.
We will have to wait till the end of the appeal of the sanction, and see what is approved, and how the negotiations on recommitments goes. We have to hope HARD that the complaining countries drive hard bargains. Here's to hoping our own country gets [censored].

[JPFisher55]

If the USTR actually agrees to compensation then Congress would have to approve it. However, I doubt that the USTR will ever agree to any compensation. Compensation awarded by the WTO in the form of retaliatory measures does not need to be approved by Congress.
I would like to know how the USTR gets away with ignoring US statutes that state that the USTR must request Congress to enact legislation that complies with final WTO rulings?

[Legislurker]

Because the WTO treaties have been confirmed by the Senate already. The Constitution gives the Executive power to enforce the treaty. This is not a new treaty, its making right obligations already approved. I WISH it was the other way, but it would take a big lawsuit to make it go that way. But, I think its more likely the USTR will just let the penalties occur and ignore it. We haven't scored a prime time news story on this yet. As long as we aren't front page, O'Reilly, Couric, Williams, Dobbs, material they will get away with selling the people and gamblers up the river with no reprecussions. I think on a side note, we are about to see the WORST, most traumatic lame duck presidency ever in terms of shenanigans, corruption, and low politics. Buckle your seat belts.

[Uglyowl]

Can't get much worse than 25% approval...so why should he care at this point. (http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/)

[Legislurker]

Can't get much worse than the fact 25% of the people still support him. I hate myself every day for voting for him, twice in 04.

[JPFisher55]

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Can't get much worse than the fact 25% of the people still support him. I hate myself every day for voting for him, twice in 04.

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I feel your pain. I was a Republican then. I hate to say it, but Kerry could not have been worse than Bush.

[tangled]

[ QUOTE ]
Because the WTO treaties have been confirmed by the Senate already. The Constitution gives the Executive power to enforce the treaty. This is not a new treaty, its making right obligations already approved. I WISH it was the other way, but it would take a big lawsuit to make it go that way. But, I think its more likely the USTR will just let the penalties occur and ignore it. We haven't scored a prime time news story on this yet. As long as we aren't front page, O'Reilly, Couric, Williams, Dobbs, material they will get away with selling the people and gamblers up the river with no reprecussions. I think on a side note, we are about to see the WORST, most traumatic lame duck presidency ever in terms of shenanigans, corruption, and low politics. Buckle your seat belts.

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But where is the money for the payoff going to come from? The administration may be able to agree to anything they want to, without Senate ratification, but somebody has to sign the check (unless Ollie is lurking somewhere behind the scenes /images/graemlins/smile.gif). In our system it is Congress that signs the checks. And both houses. Or am I missing something?

[oldbookguy]

In this case it will not be 'signing the checks' so to speak by the government as much as by American companies.

American companies may have to pay increased tarriffs to export goods AND foreign companies may get discounted import fees, both of which will put American companies at a disadvantage and can cost American jobs.

As to Antigua, they are asking to be allowed to legally 'pirate' software in a sense.

obg

[PoorLawyer]

The PPA is a joke. I work just a few blocks and in theory could have attended. Unfortunately, the PPA sent a notice about this event at 10PM last night for an 11am meeting the following day.

[schwza]

did anybody watch this? how did we look?

[Legislurker]

I had someting i coulldn't get out of at lunch, so I am waiting to watch from the archives, but it hasnt been posted there yet. If its not up tomorrow I will email Sallie James and ask how long.

[oldbookguy]

I tried watching but could never get a connection via real player.

obg

[JPFisher55]

I listened and Mr. Mendel was excellent. The law professor essentially represented the USTR. Nothing earth shattering, but all agreed that the compensation issues will be complex and lengthy to resolve.
Mr. Mendel felt that the legitimacy of the WTO process for small countries is at stake. Essentially we have heard all that was discussed.
Arbitration on Antiqua's request for compensation starts in September and the WTO has set up an arbitration panel.
FWIW, I got the impression that if the US continues its stone-walling Antiqua and lots of small countries will withdraw from the WTO and become software pirate havens.

[Legislurker]

Archives have it now. The video link didn't work for me, but the Audio is.

[TheEngineer]

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Archives have it now. The video link didn't work for me, but the Audio is.

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Looks like they fixed it. I'm watching it now.