Line check: Flopped draw after attacking limps IP

[Fiksdal]

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $50.79
BB: $42.93
UTG: $62.71
MP: $46.39
CO: $45.00
Hero (BTN): $52.78

Reads: <font color="blue">UTG is 26/11/1.7 over 500ish hands.</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Thttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, SB folds, BB calls $2.50, UTG calls $2.50, MP folds

Flop: ($9.75) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Khttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $2.00</font>, UTG calls $2.00, Hero calls $2.00

Turn: ($15.75) 2http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (3 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $2.50</font>, UTG calls $2.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $11.50</font>, BB calls $9.00, UTG calls $9.00

River: ($50.25) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $40.00</font>, Hero calls AI for 36ish

[corsakh]

[censored]... I am like wtf, how did you get into this. I need to think /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But I am certain you are beat on the river. I am thinking how to play the early streets.

[suited77]

I would raise up the donkbet on the flop after preflop action. I don't think you will get 3bet after preflop action unless villain has 44, A4, and if scare cards end up falling (non-diamond), you will be in a position to steal. You can check behind non-diamond turn, esp. if both villains call.

As played, turn raise is way too small, make it 17.50-20.
Can find a fold on this river given UTG's line, and his passive numbers (11 PFR, 1.7 AF)

[Fiksdal]

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As played, turn raise is way too small, make it 17.50-20.

[/ QUOTE ]

The size of my raise sets up a river shove perfectly, doesn't it?

[RainbowBright]

Flop is good because you're not getting anyone to fold an ace. And you don't want to get blown off your draw.

Turn: I'd raise more for value and protection.

River: I think I might have to call. Sure it's a strong line, but he's not repping much of anything except a poorly played A4s or AdXd.

[corsakh]

I think you played it fine but you need to fold river. Its one thing to shove and another thing to call a shove. Once you get called on the turn and shoved on the river, your hand had no value.

[relativity_x]

utg's line makes no sense. He flat calls when you raise on the turn. It looks like a bluff, or like aces full of 2s/4s.

With his AF factor being 1.8, it's a close call/fold. Id call because he could be doing this with trip aces a lot.

[Fiksdal]

corsakh

Do you think Ax that hasn't boated is in UTGs range here?

[RainbowBright]

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As played, turn raise is way too small, make it 17.50-20.

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The size of my raise sets up a river shove perfectly, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You can only really expect to have one caller with your raise. And that will leave a PSB left on the river which although is not an over-bet is still on the large side. Pyschologically I believe it's better to make your opponent feel committed by the river by having him call a larger bet on the turn and a smaller bet on the river. Therefore, make a PS Raise on the turn and a 3/4 size bet on the river.

[Fiksdal]

Yeah good point Rainbow, you are right.

[ajmargarine]

I like a bigger turn raise. As played, fold river. He's got 44 most of the time with those stats. A good note to have on players is limp/call pp's in EP and it looks like he might have the stats for that.

[relativity_x]

a lot of the same villains limp ax too.

[corsakh]

Certainly. But see, he is not calling a reraise on the turn unless he has at least two pair. A2, Adxd and 44 all fit perfectly.

[RainbowBright]

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I like a bigger turn raise. As played, fold river. He's got 44 most of the time with those stats. A good note to have on players is limp/call pp's in EP and it looks like he might have the stats for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're only reading half the story I believe. You're right that a preflop limp/call is often small pocket pairs or small suited connectors.

But the flop call of a tiny donk bet with a player to act behind is not consistent with a set, therefore, I think that the Villain rarely should have 44 here.

[relativity_x]

run the numbers on poker stove with our hand vs. {22,44,ad2d+,a2o+}

[corsakh]

Not consistent with a set? Hes tarping. Tarping is not consistent with a set?

[relativity_x]

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Not consistent with a set? Hes tarping. Tarping is not consistent with a set?


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what exactly is tarping? =P

[ajmargarine]

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I like a bigger turn raise. As played, fold river. He's got 44 most of the time with those stats. A good note to have on players is limp/call pp's in EP and it looks like he might have the stats for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're only reading half the story I believe. You're right that a preflop limp/call is often small pocket pairs or small suited connectors.

But the flop call of a tiny donk bet with a player to act behind is not consistent with a set, therefore, I think that the Villain rarely should have 44 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's basically checking to the preflop raiser, except he called $2 along the way. Ace high flop, AK high flop, YOWZA dude's got AK and my 44 is gonna take him to school.

[corsakh]

Same as trapping but on a higher level of thinking, like limping AA on the button or slowplaying a set on a 987 sooted board against the whole table. Advanced [censored], you should watch poker tv shows for this.

[RainbowBright]

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I like a bigger turn raise. As played, fold river. He's got 44 most of the time with those stats. A good note to have on players is limp/call pp's in EP and it looks like he might have the stats for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're only reading half the story I believe. You're right that a preflop limp/call is often small pocket pairs or small suited connectors.

But the flop call of a tiny donk bet with a player to act behind is not consistent with a set, therefore, I think that the Villain rarely should have 44 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's basically checking to the preflop raiser, except he called $2 along the way. Ace high flop, AK high flop, YOWZA dude's got AK and my 44 is gonna take him to school.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but a $2 donk bet, suggest a cheap draw which the Villain should therefore protect against with a raise. And he shouldn't be worried about folding out the preflop raiser, since the preflop raiser is only probably continuing with an Ace which wouldn't fold to a raise anyways.

[RainbowBright]

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I like a bigger turn raise. As played, fold river. He's got 44 most of the time with those stats. A good note to have on players is limp/call pp's in EP and it looks like he might have the stats for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're only reading half the story I believe. You're right that a preflop limp/call is often small pocket pairs or small suited connectors.

But the flop call of a tiny donk bet with a player to act behind is not consistent with a set, therefore, I think that the Villain rarely should have 44 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's basically checking to the preflop raiser, except he called $2 along the way. Ace high flop, AK high flop, YOWZA dude's got AK and my 44 is gonna take him to school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess what I was trying to say is that calling a small donk bet is not equivalent to checking behind.

(No matter what it's a strange way to play a hand.)

[Fiksdal]

OK. AJ wins this. Villain had 44 and totally tarped me.

[suited77]

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As played, turn raise is way too small, make it 17.50-20.

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The size of my raise sets up a river shove perfectly, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but against 2 opponents and many possible scare cards (A, K, 4, 2, any diamond, + action killers 3s and 5s) to come, you have to pump it up.