What about this line *theory*

[mvdgaag]

I'm posting this here, because I feel this means different things at uNL than higher stakes...

- Vilain is OOP and called a preflop raise
- Check/called a cbet on the flop
- Bets out on turn

If villain would have had position and hero would have checked the turn than this is a float. Usually he's not giving hero credit for a hand and has some showdown value himself... If he doesn't abuse this and properly mixes this up with slowplays it can be a pretty strong play.

In this case villain doesn't have position though and donkbets on the turn... Is this often a slowplayed strong hand, given the turn didn't complete any draws? Or could it just be a badly conceiled bluff? I have trouble playing against this line with hands like TPTK, TPGK or middle pair (if top pair is not ink).

please discuss...

[relativity_x]

the check/call, lead out turn is generally a weak hand/bluff or a donk trying to get a cheap river card on a draw.

I recommend raising them on the turn depending on their wtsd.

[mvdgaag]

*bump*
Anyone else?

[geoncic]

was there a draw that could have been hit?

[mvdgaag]

no, no draws.
[ QUOTE ]
In this case villain doesn't have position though and donkbets on the turn... Is this often a slowplayed strong hand, given the turn didn't complete any draws? Or could it just be a badly conceiled bluff? I have trouble playing against this line with hands like TPTK, TPGK or middle pair (if top pair is not ink).

[/ QUOTE ]

[ciro bonano]

How much does he bets on the turn? Do you have any stats or general player profile in mind?

I guess it could be a AQ/KQ or TT type of hand on a Qxx bord, being afraid you are checking behind with AK.

If he bets small it could be a draw trying to price himself in.

[mvdgaag]

It's a decent sized bet from a semi-decent player, so not a small value bet with a huge hand or blocking bet. Not a maniac or extreme nit.

I think in your example not many players will bet because they're afraid I check behind, since they're OOP and I've showed strength all the way. They'll risk being raised and put themselves in a tough spot. It's still a good explanation though, thank you.

[corsakh]

Its a draw or a float. Usually at micros its a draw.

[tripdeuces]

This also can be a huge hand. I have had sets lead out here a bunch once they hit a safe turn card.

[mvdgaag]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a draw or a float. Usually at micros its a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

So at uNL you usually raise with TPGK?

[fees]

this depends on the player and board.. like ALOT too general imo

[corsakh]

Depends on the size of the bet. But its usually ok to flat call for pot control since those people who bet turn on a draw are also going to pot it on the river.

Also his flop timing is big give away. If its a quick call followed by another quick bet - its more likely to be a draw.

[mvdgaag]

corsakh: Thanks, I'll try to act on these tells here more.

tripdeuces: Yeah, another good reason to flat call.

fees: yes, it's general, but I intended it to be that way, because this way we can discuss what is means with a certain opponent or a completely different opponent, on a wet board and on a dry board, etc...
I feel this is much more informative than getting responses like: 'call' or 'what are his stats?' or 'he's probably on a draw given this board'.


I must agree these kinds of discussions are better suited for the theory forum and I know most 2p2'ers posting on this forum prefer to go through an actual hand instead.

Still thought this was better to post here, because this line probably means something completely different at uNL than other stakes.

Thanks all

[Daniel LeClaire]

Once in awhile it's a big hand. The majority of the time it's a draw.

[LegendLength]

Villain may do this when he has a hand and thinks you just cbet with nothing or are trying for a free turn card.