Too many bracelet events at the WSOP

[BulletsBlitz]

While being interviewed at the WSOP ME PPV, Phil Hellmuth expressed concern over WSOP Europe potentially giving out too many bracelets thereby cheapening the meaning of winning one. Obviously he's primarily concerned with his record being broken. But why is he not concerned with the fact that they now have 55 bracelet event in at the Rio and will probably continue to add more each year.

This year, there were something like 6 $1500 NLHE tourneys and 4 $2000 NLHE tourneys with identical structures /images/graemlins/confused.gif IMO there should be just one bracelet event for each game. 1 PLO, 1 NLHE, 1 six handed NLHE, etc. with the bracelet event being the largest buyin. They could still run all the others, but give out a ring, trophey, or even just the money.

That way there would be just one "World Champion" each year for each possible game variant.

What do you think?

[grando]

agree

I dunno why the winner of some $1500 event gets the same bracelet as the winner of 50k horse or ME

[Cornell Fiji]

The 'bracelet' is an excellent marketing tool to get more fish to play in the early events.

I don't care if they give away a bracelet, a watch, a trophy, or a green jacket. If they are bringing in the fish then they are doing a good job.

The mere fact that someone thinks they are cheapening the bracelet means that the WSOP has done an excellent job of marketing themselves as a premier event and through that marketing they are able to produce more fish filled events with bigger prizepools.

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
The 'bracelet' is an excellent marketing tool to get more fish to play in the early events.

I don't care if they give away a bracelet, a watch, a trophy, or a green jacket. If they are bringing in the fish then they are doing a good job.

The mere fact that someone thinks they are cheapening the bracelet means that the WSOP has done an excellent job of marketing themselves as a premier event and through that marketing they are able to produce more fish filled events with bigger prizepools.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Just follow the money trail. More bracelet events = more money for Harrah's. And they care alot more about that than about the integrity of bracelets.

I do like the OP's points and think it's a great idea to keep all events but just award less bracelets. Possibly though it can be agrued that a bracelet for $1500 nlhe is a different accomplishment than a bracelet for $5000 nlhe since many more players can afford $1500 so it is a different field. However, four bracelets for $1500 nlhe is obviously not necessary.

But I don't see how less bracelets will ever happen as long as the main goal of the organization running the WSOP is to make money.

Maybe they can differentiate between gold/silver/bronze bracelets or something to that effect.

[ShadowBJ21]

[ QUOTE ]
That way there would be just one "World Champion" each year for each possible game variant.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is only one world champion in each variant.
Bracelet IS NOT EQUAL World Champion!

Only the highest buy-in event in each variant was awarded a bracelet AND the WC title. All others "only" received the bracelet.

Shadow

[MaverickUSC]

Bracelet in $1500 event = making it through 3k players. Bracelet in many of the 5pm cheaper events mean playing through 300ish players. Which one is tougher to win?

Devo

[gaurangp]

55 events yet what 52 or 53 winners, more tourneys will not automatically mean #11 will happen any quicker, many players might win 1 or 2 and never be heard of again, helmuth has no worries

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
55 events yet what 52 or 53 winners, more tourneys will not automatically mean #11 will happen any quicker, many players might win 1 or 2 and never be heard of again, helmuth has no worries

[/ QUOTE ]

gaurangp,
we made a bet and you lost. I would PM you but you shut off PMs after you lost the bet. Please pay me the money that you owe me or at least start accepting PMs and send me a message apologizing for scamming me.

Steve

[sefaje]

who cares if the integrity of the bracelet is lessened and their value is cheapened? People will just start to ignore people with less than 2 or 3 bracelets as top performers in the WSOP, whereas 6 years ago, almost anyone with a bracelet was held in a somewhat high regard.

Besides, either way, the value of bracelets is going to decrease. There's this thing called "time." I suppose if Phil had his way, bracelets would be discontinued and his record of 11 would stand for eternity.

[Jooka]

I didn't get that from what he said during the interview at all. He was saying it would cheapen the events here in the US if they continued to add more and more outside of Vegas. Hard to not agree with him especially when you hear people like Eric Lindgren say the same thing and have zero bracelets.

[BJ Nemeth]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno why the winner of some $1500 event gets the same bracelet as the winner of 50k horse or ME

[/ QUOTE ]

While most of the bracelets were of a standard design, three were very, very different -- the Main Event, the $50,000 H.O.R.S.E., and the Ladies Event.

The bracelets for the Main Event and the $50,000 H.O.R.S.E. were enhanced with more jewels, and designed to stand out from the other bracelets. The bracelet for the Ladies Event was more feminine in design.

Nobody would argue that the Ladies Event is on par with the other two, but since it's guaranteed that a woman would win (and be representing other women), a more feminine bracelet makes sense.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
Bracelet in $1500 event = making it through 3k players. Bracelet in many of the 5pm cheaper events mean playing through 300ish players. Which one is tougher to win?

Devo

[/ QUOTE ]

it's much tougher still to win the powerball lottery

[oddsock]

Helmuth should stop bickering (and worrying). He didn't seem that worried last year before he got the sole record.

I'm also wondering if you took total bracelet numbers and divided them by total player numbers over the years would it really be that disparate now? Surely any pre-98 player multi-bracelet winner is always going to have a huge advantage over newer players.

In any event, as mentioned above and like the phrase "Main Event", it's a marketing tool.

What other competative event do you have thousands of people partaking for a title only for a large percentage of them to claim it's all a lottery anyway.

Funny really.

[LouKadeez]

Last year after the main event started there were at least 5 or 6 "meaningless" $1500NLHE tournaments that had very short fields. Phil Hellmuth played in EVERY ONE OF THEM. I didn't hear him complaining then about the cheapening of the meaning of a bracelet. Hey Phil: Shut up!!!

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

platinum bracelet
ME

titanium bracelet
50k Horse

gold bracelets
biggest buyin each even, nlhe, etc

silver bracelets
all other events

thoughts?

[W brad]

Consistently getting to the money shows skill.

Winning the bracelet once you get to the money shows good luck for the most part.

Who cares about how many bracelets we have? They don't really mean anything in objective terms.

Would you have a lot of respect for me if I won the slot machine world championship bracelet? Or if I won the Powerball lottery world championship bracelet?

[pomhat]

[ QUOTE ]
platinum bracelet
ME

titanium bracelet
50k Horse

gold bracelets
biggest buyin each even, nlhe, etc

silver bracelets
all other events

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

you also need to specify what magical abilities each gives to the winner

[Injection]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
platinum bracelet
ME

titanium bracelet
50k Horse

gold bracelets
biggest buyin each even, nlhe, etc

silver bracelets
all other events

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

you also need to specify what magical abilities each gives to the winner

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that you don't need magical abilities to win one in the first place?

[MyTurn2Raise]

i disagree that there are too many bracelets now

if anything, the olden days had too many bracelets

there are now a higher number of players playing at a higher level...tougher to get one now per player

[Dynasty]

I actually haven't done the research. But, I don't think the # of bracelets of increased in proportion to the # of players participating in the WSOP. So, I say there aren't enough bracelets being awarded.

[Johan Ramstedt]

What does bracelet mean?

[oddsock]

It means Harrah's are laughing their cash stuffed asses off.

[samsdmf]

No bracelets = less prestige = less fish

If it means keeping the schools of fish flowing in each year I dont mind if they give every event winner a 4 foot trophy and a Parisian hooker

As far as other non WSOP events go (circuit etc) they should give cufflinks and tie pins- way more balla than a gowddamn ring

[fatshaft]

[ QUOTE ]
Last year after the main event started there were at least 5 or 6 "meaningless" $1500NLHE tournaments that had very short fields. Phil Hellmuth played in EVERY ONE OF THEM. I didn't hear him complaining then about the cheapening of the meaning of a bracelet. Hey Phil: Shut up!!!

[/ QUOTE ]No, he's quite happy for more bracelets to be played in Vegas, but don't add any around the World. Sorry guys but this is so typical American - World = USA. It's 3 events for Christ's sake!

[marty_palin]

[ QUOTE ]
agree

I dunno why the winner of some $1500 event gets the same bracelet as the winner of 50k horse or ME

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesnt this statement imply that a higher buyin = higher skill. Which I cant possibly agree with sorry based on what I read about the ME. Ram Vaswani won the shootout event (£1500) and IMO provided the most skillfull display of NLHE in this years whole series.

[CincyLady]

I for one wouldn't be opposed to making any event that costs less than a 5k buyin a 'ring' event, and have at least one (higher level) 5k event for each type of game (Omaha, Stud, Limit, Texas hold 'em no limit, ect) being ran

In other words, the winners of those (lesser) events where that the buy in is less than 5k, would get a ring instead of a Bracelet.

[MarkGritter]

I fail to see what the point is here. "Too many bracelets"? WTF? Who is being harmed?

Are we going to retroactively downgrade some of Phil Hellmuth's bracelets because they weren't in the biggest-buyin event of that type?

In 2003 there were 35 bracelets awarded, and many of the preliminary events had 200 to 400 people. In 2007 these events were anywhere from two to ten times larger. I think if somebody deserves a "bracelet" for beating 200 players in 2003, then beating 800 players in a similar event in 2008 is worth a "bracelet" too, even if there are more tournaments.

I welcome the addition of more events. It gives me more flexibility to find time to visit Las Vegas and play in an event I'm excited about. There is absolutely no point in denying me the chance to win a bracelet just because I can make a $2000 event but not a $3000 event.

There is no problem that having fewer "bracelet" events will solve. There is no point to mucking with a tradition; it is not like we are in danger of seeing every random slob in your poker room sporting a WSOP bracelet.

[pokergrader]

Hellmuth is obviously just trying to protect his record here.

Using the incredibly low estimate that 10,000 unique players played in the WSOP this year, that means 55/10000 = Just over half a percent of people win bracelets over the course of the series.

0.5% (or a little lower) to me sounds like a perfect balance for scarce, but at the same time within reach.

[Iron Tigran]

Hellmuth won #11 playing in a $1,500 event! If he was so concerned about cheapening the WSOP, why did he play in one of these less prestigious events?! He should have sat out as a matter of principle.

So, he got his "cheap" bracelet, and is now all worried about others doing the same? Hmm...

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
agree

I dunno why the winner of some $1500 event gets the same bracelet as the winner of 50k horse or ME

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesnt this statement imply that a higher buyin = higher skill. Which I cant possibly agree with sorry based on what I read about the ME. Ram Vaswani won the shootout event (£1500) and IMO provided the most skillfull display of NLHE in this years whole series.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Vaswani's bracelet was in Limit HE.

[UATrewqaz]

Harrah's would begin selling WSOP bracelets in the Rio gift shop if they thought it would result in a big profit.

The WSOP braclet is merely a marketing gimmic for Harrah's now, completely meaningless to them, even if it isn't to others.

[JasonP530]

How "cheap" are Hellmuth's bracelets? The main event he beat 178 people. 5k limit was 84. 2500 NL was 173. You realize that that is LESS than the 20/180 tournaments that Pokerstars runs?