HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE THIS GUY?! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

papilindo

07-20-2007, 08:46 AM

After just winning 8M the following exchange takes place between Yang and Chad (taken from Pauly's Tao of Poker):

'When Norman Chad asked him if he was having the best day of his life, Yang mentioned that when he came to America for the first time, "It was the first day I found freedom. My family tried to escape Laos and we failed. They (communist regime) hunted us down. Then we escaped to Thailand. When I found out that we were going to America was the happiest day of my life."'

Talk about having your priorties straight! Turns out though that lots of people are upset with him 'cause he wears his faith on his sleeve...but isn't that what the freedom of this great nation allows? Maybe Pauly said it best when he went on to comment:

'"... A devout Christian and religious man like Jerry Yang can help draw positive attention to the poker community. Poker can be a conduit for goodwill. Sure it's a form of gambling, but so is beating the stock market. Heck, praying for an imaginary being (aka God) is the ultimate gamble. What's the difference between shoving all in with a Big Slick vs. a middle pair and believing in God? There is none. Both are coinflip situations. God either exists or doesn't. That's a race situation that church goers gamble with every single Sunday."'

I know one bet that's not a coin flip: having Jerry Yang as poker's ambassador for the next year...that's a slam dunk.

Zetack

07-20-2007, 09:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After just winning 8M the following exchange takes place between Yang and Chad (taken from Pauly's Tao of Poker):

'When Norman Chad asked him if he was having the best day of his life, Yang mentioned that when he came to America for the first time, "It was the first day I found freedom. My family tried to escape Laos and we failed. They (communist regime) hunted us down. Then we escaped to Thailand. When I found out that we were going to America was the happiest day of my life."'

Talk about having your priorties straight! Turns out though that lots of people are upset with him 'cause he wears his faith on his sleeve...but isn't that what the freedom of this great nation allows? Maybe Pauly said it best when he went on to comment:

'"... A devout Christian and religious man like Jerry Yang can help draw positive attention to the poker community. Poker can be a conduit for goodwill. Sure it's a form of gambling, but so is beating the stock market. Heck, praying for an imaginary being (aka God) is the ultimate gamble. What's the difference between shoving all in with a Big Slick vs. a middle pair and believing in God? There is none. Both are coinflip situations. God either exists or doesn't. That's a race situation that church goers gamble with every single Sunday."'

I know one bet that's not a coin flip: having Jerry Yang as poker's ambassador for the next year...that's a slam dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm skeptical that the probability of God existing is 50%.

fnurt

07-20-2007, 09:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After just winning 8M the following exchange takes place between Yang and Chad (taken from Pauly's Tao of Poker):

'When Norman Chad asked him if he was having the best day of his life, Yang mentioned that when he came to America for the first time, "It was the first day I found freedom. My family tried to escape Laos and we failed. They (communist regime) hunted us down. Then we escaped to Thailand. When I found out that we were going to America was the happiest day of my life."'

Talk about having your priorties straight! Turns out though that lots of people are upset with him 'cause he wears his faith on his sleeve...but isn't that what the freedom of this great nation allows? Maybe Pauly said it best when he went on to comment:

'"... A devout Christian and religious man like Jerry Yang can help draw positive attention to the poker community. Poker can be a conduit for goodwill. Sure it's a form of gambling, but so is beating the stock market. Heck, praying for an imaginary being (aka God) is the ultimate gamble. What's the difference between shoving all in with a Big Slick vs. a middle pair and believing in God? There is none. Both are coinflip situations. God either exists or doesn't. That's a race situation that church goers gamble with every single Sunday."'

I know one bet that's not a coin flip: having Jerry Yang as poker's ambassador for the next year...that's a slam dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was actually Pascal who demonstrated that believing in God is a +EV wager. After all, if you don't believe in God, you only get looked up when you're behind.

A_C_Slater

07-20-2007, 09:23 AM

What makes this guy so great? So he won the main event, big deal, it's just a 50/50 anyway. You either win the main event or you don't.

A_C_Slater

07-20-2007, 09:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After just winning 8M the following exchange takes place between Yang and Chad (taken from Pauly's Tao of Poker):

'When Norman Chad asked him if he was having the best day of his life, Yang mentioned that when he came to America for the first time, "It was the first day I found freedom. My family tried to escape Laos and we failed. They (communist regime) hunted us down. Then we escaped to Thailand. When I found out that we were going to America was the happiest day of my life."'

Talk about having your priorties straight! Turns out though that lots of people are upset with him 'cause he wears his faith on his sleeve...but isn't that what the freedom of this great nation allows? Maybe Pauly said it best when he went on to comment:

'"... A devout Christian and religious man like Jerry Yang can help draw positive attention to the poker community. Poker can be a conduit for goodwill. Sure it's a form of gambling, but so is beating the stock market. Heck, praying for an imaginary being (aka God) is the ultimate gamble. What's the difference between shoving all in with a Big Slick vs. a middle pair and believing in God? There is none. Both are coinflip situations. God either exists or doesn't. That's a race situation that church goers gamble with every single Sunday."'

I know one bet that's not a coin flip: having Jerry Yang as poker's ambassador for the next year...that's a slam dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was actually Pascal who demonstrated that believing in God is a +EV wager. After all, if you don't believe in God, you only get looked up when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what if believing in a personable God in a possibly impersonal universe could affect any post-death awareness in a possibly adverse way? In this scenario believing in God is a liabilty in the same way that a poor person who expects to receive charity would have an adverse affect in life.

papilindo

07-20-2007, 09:44 AM

Probably because it's the manner in which we react to the events that impact upon us that defines our character (or lack thereof)...

Bobbo539

07-20-2007, 09:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After just winning 8M the following exchange takes place between Yang and Chad (taken from Pauly's Tao of Poker):

'When Norman Chad asked him if he was having the best day of his life, Yang mentioned that when he came to America for the first time, "It was the first day I found freedom. My family tried to escape Laos and we failed. They (communist regime) hunted us down. Then we escaped to Thailand. When I found out that we were going to America was the happiest day of my life."'

Talk about having your priorties straight! Turns out though that lots of people are upset with him 'cause he wears his faith on his sleeve...but isn't that what the freedom of this great nation allows? Maybe Pauly said it best when he went on to comment:

'"... A devout Christian and religious man like Jerry Yang can help draw positive attention to the poker community. Poker can be a conduit for goodwill. Sure it's a form of gambling, but so is beating the stock market. Heck, praying for an imaginary being (aka God) is the ultimate gamble. What's the difference between shoving all in with a Big Slick vs. a middle pair and believing in God? There is none. Both are coinflip situations. God either exists or doesn't. That's a race situation that church goers gamble with every single Sunday."'

I know one bet that's not a coin flip: having Jerry Yang as poker's ambassador for the next year...that's a slam dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was actually Pascal who demonstrated that believing in God is a +EV wager. After all, if you don't believe in God, you only get looked up when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what if believing in a personable God in a possibly impersonal universe could affect any post-death awareness in a possibly adverse way? In this scenario believing in God is a liabilty in the same way that a poor person who expects to receive charity would have an adverse affect in life.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it can be said that a Chrsitan post death awareness - that god will judge you, you will live in heaven- will push people to act in a more virtuous manner, this effecting the world in better and more selfless manner than man with an athiestic post death awareness. Without breaking into a full on philisophical debate, I think its fair to say that the belief in god can coorelate to a more fufilling world for both your sould and your neighbors. Not to say athiests can't be good, that is not true at all, but the belief in god can be an extra motivator for benign behavior.

Sciolist

07-20-2007, 10:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm skeptical that the probability of God existing is 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly you don't spend much time in BBV, it is 50/50, he either exists or he doesn't.

Zetack

07-20-2007, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm skeptical that the probability of God existing is 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly you don't spend much time in BBV, it is 50/50, he either exists or he doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I don't spend much time in BBV. Still a bad anlogy, however, given that your EV's are much different in the god-beliving/disbelieving coin flip than in the AK vrs underpair coinflip, for obvious reasons.

MikeRice

07-20-2007, 11:55 AM

My lack of faith is clearly holding me back.

Yang:

I was in the BB with A3 and kind of short. UTG raised and someone reraised I looked at A3s in the BB and said please lord let me win this and I will forever praise you and your glory. So I shipped it with the A3. He had KK. I said please lord jesus and whoever else up there help me.

BOOM WHEEL!

SimonBarSinister

07-20-2007, 12:11 PM

The ignorance that some people continue to show on this subject is absolutely astounding.Leave the [censored] guy alone already about his religious beliefs,they in no way affect anything in your lives.

GotQuads

07-20-2007, 12:17 PM

Yang should maybe be bashed for his play, but not his character.

He's a great guy imho

maryfield48

07-20-2007, 12:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It was actually Pascal who demonstrated that believing in God is a +EV wager. After all, if you don't believe in God, you only get looked up when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pascal could only fathom a choice between JC and no god. It's like putting your opponent specifically on AA every time he raises pre-flop. The actual range is quite a bit wider, like, infinity.

27offsuit

07-20-2007, 12:58 PM

My personal favorite Yang quote:

""The Lord was watching over me," replied Yang. "When I had 4-4 and I was all in I prayed, 'Lord, give me a set.' Then the flop had a 4 and I survived that hand. I have seen the miracles of God at the World Series of Poker."

Lawl......"....lord, give me a set."

Now that's [censored] gold!

DonkeyChip

07-20-2007, 01:07 PM

So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

27offsuit

07-20-2007, 01:10 PM

What happens in Phuket, stays in Phuket...

Jasper109

07-20-2007, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

God must have had a football or baseball game to decide that day and was unavailable.

Brad1970

07-20-2007, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there is a little story in the Bible about a guy named Noah who built an ark & there was a flood & everything. Maybe you oughta read it & get back to us.

Jasper109

07-20-2007, 01:26 PM

fnurt

07-20-2007, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It was actually Pascal who demonstrated that believing in God is a +EV wager. After all, if you don't believe in God, you only get looked up when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pascal could only fathom a choice between JC and no god. It's like putting your opponent specifically on AA every time he raises pre-flop. The actual range is quite a bit wider, like, infinity.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only relevant grouping is the subset of gods who threaten you with eternal damnation if you don't believe in them. If there are multiple gods that fit that description, your play is to select the most plausible one and go with that. It certainly can't be +EV to choose none of them.

Cornell Fiji

07-20-2007, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there is a little story in the Bible about a guy named Noah who built an ark & there was a flood & everything. Maybe you oughta read it & get back to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure that that story ended by a certain covenant symbolized by a rainbow.

Maybe you oughta reread it and get back to us.

Its a shame this thread got derailed. That is an awesome quote from Yang and makes him much more likable in my opinion.

Brad1970

07-20-2007, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there is a little story in the Bible about a guy named Noah who built an ark & there was a flood & everything. Maybe you oughta read it & get back to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure that that story ended by a certain covenant symbolized by a rainbow.

Maybe you oughta reread it and get back to us.

Its a shame this thread got derailed. That is an awesome quote from Yang and makes him much more likable in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I know the story but you missed the point. I agree that this thread & several others have gotten derailed but if posters on this board would just post their thoughts on whether he played good or bad...love him or hate him...whatever...instead of attacking his faith just because they don't agree with it.

Jasper109

07-20-2007, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there is a little story in the Bible about a guy named Noah who built an ark & there was a flood & everything. Maybe you oughta read it & get back to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure that that story ended by a certain covenant symbolized by a rainbow.

Maybe you oughta reread it and get back to us.

Its a shame this thread got derailed. That is an awesome quote from Yang and makes him much more likable in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I know the story but you missed the point. I agree that this thread & several others have gotten derailed but if posters on this board would just post their thoughts on whether he played good or bad...love him or hate him...whatever...instead of attacking his faith just because they don't agree with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not attacking his faith. People have a democratic right to be stupid. What we are attacking is him behaving like a lunatic while others were trying to complete a poker tournament.

What would you think if Albert Pujols stood at the plate in the world series and audibly asked god to make the pitcher throw the ball down the middle of the plate so he could hit a home run?

Brad1970

07-20-2007, 02:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there is a little story in the Bible about a guy named Noah who built an ark & there was a flood & everything. Maybe you oughta read it & get back to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure that that story ended by a certain covenant symbolized by a rainbow.

Maybe you oughta reread it and get back to us.

Its a shame this thread got derailed. That is an awesome quote from Yang and makes him much more likable in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I know the story but you missed the point. I agree that this thread & several others have gotten derailed but if posters on this board would just post their thoughts on whether he played good or bad...love him or hate him...whatever...instead of attacking his faith just because they don't agree with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
We're not attacking his faith.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me? Maybe you haven't outright, but you've come darn close. There have been countless others that have though.

papilindo

07-20-2007, 02:52 PM

Jasp, sounds like your second sentence relates to the first...with the implication that his faith is stupid.

Attacking him for acting like a lunatic? I believe there were others in the tournament, some quite well known, that would actually fit that characterization yet haven't received nearly the same level of criticism. Anyway, since when is praying considered acting like a lunatic?

And FYI, many sports figures do in fact make outward expressions of their faith while in front of fans and peers while the game(s) are in progress. Little or nothing is said in criticism of them in such instances. In fact, they're often given some additional respect as "men of character" etc. Why the double standard with Yang?

DonkeyChip

07-20-2007, 03:04 PM

BTW/FWIW - I wasn't really attacking 'faith' per se or even the notion that God exists...but rather the notion that God would interfere with something such as whether or not Yang won a hand...yet let innocent babies die in some disaster.

Brad1970

07-20-2007, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW/FWIW - I wasn't really attacking 'faith' per se or even the notion that God exists...but rather the notion that God would interfere with something such as whether or not Yang won a hand...yet let innocent babies die in some disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I reiterate my pervious statement about the Biblical story of Noah. Why did the flood happen then? Why did it rain for 40 days & 40 nights. Why were Noah & his family the only ones spared?

Brad1970

07-20-2007, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Jasp, sounds like your second sentence relates to the first...with the implication that his faith is stupid.

Attacking him for acting like a lunatic? I believe there were others in the tournament, some quite well known, that would actually fit that characterization yet haven't received nearly the same level of criticism. Anyway, since when is praying considered acting like a lunatic?

And FYI, many sports figures do in fact make outward expressions of their faith while in front of fans and peers while the game(s) are in progress. Little or nothing is said in criticism of them in such instances. In fact, they're often given some additional respect as "men of character" etc. Why the double standard with Yang?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post.

Does anybody remember last year's Super Bowl? What did both head coaches have in common off the field? They made no bones about where they stood...

papilindo

07-20-2007, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know there is a little story in the Bible about a guy named Noah who built an ark & there was a flood & everything. Maybe you oughta read it & get back to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure that that story ended by a certain covenant symbolized by a rainbow.

Maybe you oughta reread it and get back to us.

Its a shame this thread got derailed. That is an awesome quote from Yang and makes him much more likable in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments exactly. I think his statements reflect the gratitude for America that he feels and a sincere appreciation for all that it has to offer. Maybe now he'll be bashed by all the Communists on this forum... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jasper109

07-20-2007, 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jasp, sounds like your second sentence relates to the first...with the implication that his faith is stupid.

Attacking him for acting like a lunatic? I believe there were others in the tournament, some quite well known, that would actually fit that characterization yet haven't received nearly the same level of criticism. Anyway, since when is praying considered acting like a lunatic?

And FYI, many sports figures do in fact make outward expressions of their faith while in front of fans and peers while the game(s) are in progress. Little or nothing is said in criticism of them in such instances. In fact, they're often given some additional respect as "men of character" etc. Why the double standard with Yang?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post.

Does anybody remember last year's Super Bowl? What did both head coaches have in common off the field? They made no bones about where they stood...

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that they weren't praying and asking for divine intervention while the game was going on.

Seriously, dude seemed like a really nice guy and played great, but his behavior in the first hour was way out of line.

Once he toned it down everything was cool.

TheChad

07-20-2007, 03:40 PM

Well, I, for one, am glad that a guy like Yang won. He's a little like Raymer in that he may have played at less than Ivey or Reece, but he AND Raymer are stand-up guys. It will be good to see what he does in the next year as poker's ambassador.

elcastigador

07-20-2007, 03:52 PM

If God doesn't exist, you take everything and lose nothing.

If God does exist, you give something but gain everything.

Sort of just a personal choice, odds are better banking on existense.

beaver

07-20-2007, 04:19 PM

50% chance god exists? more like 20%

normal

07-20-2007, 05:21 PM

God almost surely (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_surely) does not exist. Clearly not a coinflip.

Brad1970

07-20-2007, 05:42 PM

I have one response to those with doubts as to the existance of God & his only son Jesus Christ...

Out of all of the world's major religion's you can go and visit the grave/tomb/burial site of the religion's founder. Muhammad, founder of Islam, is a good example. Budda is another.

If anybody knows where Jesus Christ's burial tomb is, I really like to go visit it.

ericicecream

07-20-2007, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL @ floppeth.

The Lord floppeth, and the Lord taketh away.

sweetjazz

07-20-2007, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the lord floppeth him a set but let innocent babies die when the tsunami hit? Nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did the innocent babies or Jerry Yang ask for them to be spared? I think not. Amirite?

CybrPunk

07-21-2007, 11:14 AM

The_Corpse

07-21-2007, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW/FWIW - I wasn't really attacking 'faith' per se or even the notion that God exists...but rather the notion that God would interfere with something such as whether or not Yang won a hand...yet let innocent babies die in some disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I reiterate my pervious statement about the Biblical story of Noah. Why did the flood happen then? Why did it rain for 40 days & 40 nights. Why were Noah & his family the only ones spared?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you seriously believe that happened?

ChrisCo

07-21-2007, 12:34 PM

So one man was able to gather up many different types of species in a short amount of time, limited by the technology of that time, build an arch that would house all of these animals, provide enough food and different types of food for the varying animals, and stop them from attacking the other animals on a 40 day voyage?

I'll pass on that one.

ChrisCo

07-21-2007, 12:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have one response to those with doubts as to the existance of God & his only son Jesus Christ...

Out of all of the world's major religion's you can go and visit the grave/tomb/burial site of the religion's founder. Muhammad, founder of Islam, is a good example. Budda is another.

If anybody knows where Jesus Christ's burial tomb is, I really like to go visit it.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF does this prove? Are you kidding me.

One persons tomb doesn't exist after 1000's of years and this is supposed to be conclusive evidence that god exists? You are doing more to hurt your cause then help by expressing your opinion.

playallday

07-21-2007, 03:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If God doesn't exist, you take everything and lose nothing.

If God does exist, you give something but gain everything.

Sort of just a personal choice, odds are better banking on existense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with this, and always have been.

But let's start with the glaring false assumption in your first line:

"...you lose nothing."

People skip right on by this, but it's completely untrue. Just off the top of my head, being this religious costs you:

Sunday morning football
Prositutes
Premarital sex
Masterbation
Blow jobs
In most sects, PLAYING POKER
Porn... PORN, people!
ANY AMOUNT OF WEALTH (most conveniently ignore this one)

And many, many more.

Don't kid yourself, if you ignore these, you can call yourself whatever you want, but you're not a Christian.

And if Yang didn't give away all his winnings, he's pretty much flipping off the bible, too.

I know, sucks that it is so hard to be a good Christian, but the red letter words are pretty clear... and I refuse to listen to one word of moralizing from people who claim to be Christians but ignore any of the "rules" they find cramp their style.

Cat

07-21-2007, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The Lord floppeth, and the Lord taketh away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man I am in tears laughing at this /images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS For a bunch of degens, 2+2ers really love to harp on about religion. Yawn. The point of the OP was Yang's heart being in the right place about his 'happiest day ever', fer chrissakes.

CaseS87

07-21-2007, 05:11 PM

shmergle

07-21-2007, 06:06 PM

Of course it was this "great nation" of ours that made it necessary for people to escape Laos. But that's the way God wanted it.

kleath

07-22-2007, 12:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If God doesn't exist, you take everything and lose nothing.

If God does exist, you give something but gain everything.

Sort of just a personal choice, odds are better banking on existense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with this, and always have been.

But let's start with the glaring false assumption in your first line:

"...you lose nothing."

People skip right on by this, but it's completely untrue. Just off the top of my head, being this religious costs you:

Sunday morning football
Prositutes
Premarital sex
Masterbation
Blow jobs
In most sects, PLAYING POKER
Porn... PORN, people!
ANY AMOUNT OF WEALTH (most conveniently ignore this one)

And many, many more.

Don't kid yourself, if you ignore these, you can call yourself whatever you want, but you're not a Christian.

And if Yang didn't give away all his winnings, he's pretty much flipping off the bible, too.

I know, sucks that it is so hard to be a good Christian, but the red letter words are pretty clear... and I refuse to listen to one word of moralizing from people who claim to be Christians but ignore any of the "rules" they find cramp their style.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you truly believe this you are worse than Brad1970, you really shouldn't speak on things you arent aware of. All your points are severely flawed and I almost surely have more experience than you do.

playallday

07-22-2007, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If God doesn't exist, you take everything and lose nothing.

If God does exist, you give something but gain everything.

Sort of just a personal choice, odds are better banking on existense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with this, and always have been.

But let's start with the glaring false assumption in your first line:

"...you lose nothing."

People skip right on by this, but it's completely untrue. Just off the top of my head, being this religious costs you:

Sunday morning football
Prositutes
Premarital sex
Masterbation
Blow jobs
In most sects, PLAYING POKER
Porn... PORN, people!
ANY AMOUNT OF WEALTH (most conveniently ignore this one)

And many, many more.

Don't kid yourself, if you ignore these, you can call yourself whatever you want, but you're not a Christian.

And if Yang didn't give away all his winnings, he's pretty much flipping off the bible, too.

I know, sucks that it is so hard to be a good Christian, but the red letter words are pretty clear... and I refuse to listen to one word of moralizing from people who claim to be Christians but ignore any of the "rules" they find cramp their style.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you truly believe this you are worse than Brad1970, you really shouldn't speak on things you arent aware of. All your points are severely flawed and I almost surely have more experience than you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure you do not, first of all.

Second... it is pretty silly to claim my points are flawed and not share with all of us why.

Obviously, you and I both know that my points are NOT flawed, and in fact fully supported by scripture.

Assuming, of course, that you use a real bible and not Uncle Jerry's Bible of I Can Do What I Want And Still Call Myself a Christian.

john voight

07-22-2007, 03:17 AM

amazing how ppl who do not believe in faith come up with the most bewildering arguments just to drag it through the dirt.

Guys, if you want to argue about the issue fine. But making these foolish arguments like "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" or "lunatic would pray in the middle of a hand" is dumb IMO. I will try to explain:

How God intervenes in life is a mystery to everyone. No one on earth (I think) can prove or disprove this. If you believe in god that is faith. If you don't, that is faith. The only question is how you interpret the religious entity.

Saying "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" maybe correct. Maybe he did. But neither of us know why. Or, maybe he didn't; maybe the 4 was coming no matter what. Questioning this though, as if it is wrong, or stupid only demonstrates our inability to understand it. If we are open to the fact that the presence of God may exist, it is very difficult to understand how it functions. So i would say asking "Why" would be smarter than saying "LOL thats stupid". (The latter is how your tone comes off as).

Secondly, "prayer btwn hands is dumb". I didn't see this, but I think it is not dumb. It, actually exhibits the power of this mans character. He put everything aside; the magnitude of the extraordinary circumstances almost vanishes. He channels all his energy toward an entity that hat values most greatly. This takes a lot of courage IMO for the commoner. But for him I guess, he has a different perception of life, and maybe different standards. To him, faith is very important, and he does not sacrifice it at the expense of whatever the circumstances were.

It is difficult for me to explain. Faith is a very abstract concept, that is felt in many different ways. Many ppl just don't think in a way that accommodates faith. I'm not saying thats bad or wrong, I'm just saying, maybe due to your value system, and your foundation of knowledge/beliefs, you have trouble having any "faith" in relation to unprovable things. This lack of understanding, or "connection" or curiosity is what fuels the confusion many ppl experience in relation to faith, or observations of it.

So, while I am not trying to pick a fight, (maybe just trying to show why I the guy who won the WSOP maybe isn't bat sheet crazy?), I am trying to stimulate understanding. Not acceptance, just maybe an interest to "see" why and how ppl/things are. A perception is only that; it is never a truth, or a rigid thing. And IMO everything in existence consists and relates to our perception.

Hallelujah my Brothers!!

satelliter

07-22-2007, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Of course it was this "great nation" of ours that made it necessary for people to escape Laos. But that's the way God wanted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Careful, too much truth for a poker forum.

Hexadecimal

07-22-2007, 05:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Of course it was this "great nation" of ours that made it necessary for people to escape Laos. But that's the way God wanted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no. The Laotians didn't flee Laos because of anything we did to them. They fled from the totalitarian Communists that butchered anyone who dared challenge (or even disagree) them. We were in Vietnam (the lynchpin of this struggle) trying to stop that from happening in Southeast Asia, at least until we lost the political will to fight and win.

The Democrats say that Iraq is another Vietnam. I say, it'll become one if they have their way.

I'm no war-monger, but sometimes the price of not fighting is too high.

playallday

07-22-2007, 05:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course it was this "great nation" of ours that made it necessary for people to escape Laos. But that's the way God wanted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no. The Laotians didn't flee Laos because of anything we did to them. They fled from the totalitarian Communists that butchered anyone who dared challenge (or even disagree) them. We were in Vietnam (the lynchpin of this struggle) trying to stop that from happening in Southeast Asia, at least until we lost the political will to fight and win.

The Democrats say that Iraq is another Vietnam. I say, it'll become one if they have their way.

I'm no war-monger, but sometimes the price of not fighting is too high.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. That shows such ignorance of the past and present, I wonder why you bothered typing it.

Only the most unaccepting of reality wingnuts believe that we could just have won in Vietnam if it hadn't been for Jane Fonda!

Get thee to a history class, posthaste.

Max Raker

07-22-2007, 06:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
amazing how ppl who do not believe in faith come up with the most bewildering arguments just to drag it through the dirt.

Guys, if you want to argue about the issue fine. But making these foolish arguments like "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" or "lunatic would pray in the middle of a hand" is dumb IMO. I will try to explain:

How God intervenes in life is a mystery to everyone. No one on earth (I think) can prove or disprove this. If you believe in god that is faith. If you don't, that is faith. The only question is how you interpret the religious entity.

Saying "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" maybe correct. Maybe he did. But neither of us know why. Or, maybe he didn't; maybe the 4 was coming no matter what. Questioning this though, as if it is wrong, or stupid only demonstrates our inability to understand it. If we are open to the fact that the presence of God may exist, it is very difficult to understand how it functions. So i would say asking "Why" would be smarter than saying "LOL thats stupid". (The latter is how your tone comes off as).

Secondly, "prayer btwn hands is dumb". I didn't see this, but I think it is not dumb. It, actually exhibits the power of this mans character. He put everything aside; the magnitude of the extraordinary circumstances almost vanishes. He channels all his energy toward an entity that hat values most greatly. This takes a lot of courage IMO for the commoner. But for him I guess, he has a different perception of life, and maybe different standards. To him, faith is very important, and he does not sacrifice it at the expense of whatever the circumstances were.

It is difficult for me to explain. Faith is a very abstract concept, that is felt in many different ways. Many ppl just don't think in a way that accommodates faith. I'm not saying thats bad or wrong, I'm just saying, maybe due to your value system, and your foundation of knowledge/beliefs, you have trouble having any "faith" in relation to unprovable things. This lack of understanding, or "connection" or curiosity is what fuels the confusion many ppl experience in relation to faith, or observations of it.

So, while I am not trying to pick a fight, (maybe just trying to show why I the guy who won the WSOP maybe isn't bat sheet crazy?), I am trying to stimulate understanding. Not acceptance, just maybe an interest to "see" why and how ppl/things are. A perception is only that; it is never a truth, or a rigid thing. And IMO everything in existence consists and relates to our perception.

Hallelujah my Brothers!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if the guy on top of the world has faith. What if he looses everything and gets cancer (not that i hope that for him, he seems like a good guy) will he still say praise god and all that, if he does cool, if not he is a hypocrite.

nath

07-22-2007, 07:47 AM

this thread is the ultimate example of that "arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics" photoshop

john voight

07-22-2007, 10:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
amazing how ppl who do not believe in faith come up with the most bewildering arguments just to drag it through the dirt.

Guys, if you want to argue about the issue fine. But making these foolish arguments like "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" or "lunatic would pray in the middle of a hand" is dumb IMO. I will try to explain:

How God intervenes in life is a mystery to everyone. No one on earth (I think) can prove or disprove this. If you believe in god that is faith. If you don't, that is faith. The only question is how you interpret the religious entity.

Saying "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" maybe correct. Maybe he did. But neither of us know why. Or, maybe he didn't; maybe the 4 was coming no matter what. Questioning this though, as if it is wrong, or stupid only demonstrates our inability to understand it. If we are open to the fact that the presence of God may exist, it is very difficult to understand how it functions. So i would say asking "Why" would be smarter than saying "LOL thats stupid". (The latter is how your tone comes off as).

Secondly, "prayer btwn hands is dumb". I didn't see this, but I think it is not dumb. It, actually exhibits the power of this mans character. He put everything aside; the magnitude of the extraordinary circumstances almost vanishes. He channels all his energy toward an entity that hat values most greatly. This takes a lot of courage IMO for the commoner. But for him I guess, he has a different perception of life, and maybe different standards. To him, faith is very important, and he does not sacrifice it at the expense of whatever the circumstances were.

It is difficult for me to explain. Faith is a very abstract concept, that is felt in many different ways. Many ppl just don't think in a way that accommodates faith. I'm not saying thats bad or wrong, I'm just saying, maybe due to your value system, and your foundation of knowledge/beliefs, you have trouble having any "faith" in relation to unprovable things. This lack of understanding, or "connection" or curiosity is what fuels the confusion many ppl experience in relation to faith, or observations of it.

So, while I am not trying to pick a fight, (maybe just trying to show why I the guy who won the WSOP maybe isn't bat sheet crazy?), I am trying to stimulate understanding. Not acceptance, just maybe an interest to "see" why and how ppl/things are. A perception is only that; it is never a truth, or a rigid thing. And IMO everything in existence consists and relates to our perception.

Hallelujah my Brothers!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if the guy on top of the world has faith. What if he looses everything and gets cancer (not that i hope that for him, he seems like a good guy) will he still say praise god and all that, if he does cool, if not he is a hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i am pretty sure he would still have the same amount of faith in whatever he believes.

If you win the lottery do you start believing in God? No. So why would someone who experiences a tragedy stop believing?

Hexadecimal

07-22-2007, 10:26 PM

I'm not blaming Fonda for our leaving the job unfinished. She was just one person with what I found to be an abhorent opinion. In general, we didn't have the will to do what it took to win. We fired any general who even had a clue how to win the war. The North Vietnamese were unable to overrun South Vietnam as long as we were present. As soon as we left, there was a bloody purge. This is historical fact. And it's also historical fact that large numbers of Vietnamese, Laotion, and Cambodian refugees fled overseas to escape the Communists.

BTW, history's not taught by the winners in an absolute sense, unless by that you mean the former hippies that run the liberal arts departments of most major colleges.

RedManPlus

07-22-2007, 10:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not blaming Fonda for our leaving the job unfinished. She was just one person with what I found to be an abhorent opinion. In general, we didn't have the will to do what it took to win. We fired any general who even had a clue how to win the war. The North Vietnamese were unable to overrun South Vietnam as long as we were present. As soon as we left, there was a bloody purge. This is historical fact. And it's also historical fact that large numbers of Vietnamese, Laotion, and Cambodian refugees fled overseas to escape the Communists.

BTW, history's not taught by the winners in an absolute sense, unless by that you mean the former hippies that run the liberal arts departments of most major colleges.

[/ QUOTE ]

pnazari

07-22-2007, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this thread is the ultimate example of that "arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics" photoshop

[/ QUOTE ]

qft

Makonnen

07-22-2007, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Out of all of the world's major religion's you can go and visit the grave/tomb/burial site of the religion's founder. Muhammad, founder of Islam, is a good example. Budda is another.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except, you know, for those religions that have no specific founder, like Hinduism or Judaism. Or, you know, those religions where you can (or could) visit the tomb of the founder like Manichaeism or Zoroasterism.

Claiming a religious truth is one thing; claiming the truth is founded upon the gravesite of a single founder is idiocy.

mattak

07-22-2007, 11:59 PM

Definative proof that god does NOT exist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

technologic

07-23-2007, 12:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
amazing how ppl who do not believe in faith come up with the most bewildering arguments just to drag it through the dirt.

Guys, if you want to argue about the issue fine. But making these foolish arguments like "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" or "lunatic would pray in the middle of a hand" is dumb IMO. I will try to explain:

How God intervenes in life is a mystery to everyone. No one on earth (I think) can prove or disprove this. If you believe in god that is faith. If you don't, that is faith. The only question is how you interpret the religious entity.

Saying "God gave him a set but bunch of ppl died from a tsunami" maybe correct. Maybe he did. But neither of us know why. Or, maybe he didn't; maybe the 4 was coming no matter what. Questioning this though, as if it is wrong, or stupid only demonstrates our inability to understand it. If we are open to the fact that the presence of God may exist, it is very difficult to understand how it functions. So i would say asking "Why" would be smarter than saying "LOL thats stupid". (The latter is how your tone comes off as).

Secondly, "prayer btwn hands is dumb". I didn't see this, but I think it is not dumb. It, actually exhibits the power of this mans character. He put everything aside; the magnitude of the extraordinary circumstances almost vanishes. He channels all his energy toward an entity that hat values most greatly. This takes a lot of courage IMO for the commoner. But for him I guess, he has a different perception of life, and maybe different standards. To him, faith is very important, and he does not sacrifice it at the expense of whatever the circumstances were.

It is difficult for me to explain. Faith is a very abstract concept, that is felt in many different ways. Many ppl just don't think in a way that accommodates faith. I'm not saying thats bad or wrong, I'm just saying, maybe due to your value system, and your foundation of knowledge/beliefs, you have trouble having any "faith" in relation to unprovable things. This lack of understanding, or "connection" or curiosity is what fuels the confusion many ppl experience in relation to faith, or observations of it.

So, while I am not trying to pick a fight, (maybe just trying to show why I the guy who won the WSOP maybe isn't bat sheet crazy?), I am trying to stimulate understanding. Not acceptance, just maybe an interest to "see" why and how ppl/things are. A perception is only that; it is never a truth, or a rigid thing. And IMO everything in existence consists and relates to our perception.

Hallelujah my Brothers!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if the guy on top of the world has faith. What if he looses everything and gets cancer (not that i hope that for him, he seems like a good guy) will he still say praise god and all that, if he does cool, if not he is a hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i am pretty sure he would still have the same amount of faith in whatever he believes.

If you win the lottery do you start believing in God? No. So why would someone who experiences a tragedy stop believing?

[/ QUOTE ]

book of job illustrates this concept i believe

entertainme

07-23-2007, 01:35 AM

The Boy and I fell asleep about 45 minutes before the end of the FT on Wed. morning, so we just watched the end of it today.

I have to say that I really liked Jerry Yang after his interview with Norman Chad.

This is a man who knows what it is to be dirt poor, to be running for his life from those who will certainly kill him and his loved ones.

This is a man that loves freedom and the opportunities it gave him.

This is a man who sincerely wants to help others.

This is a man who studied hard and got his PHD in his adopted country.

This is a man who loves his family.

This is a man that values his faith more than he values how the public will perceive him. He is willing to be called a fool for what he believes in. You may see foolishness. I see courage.

I'm not putting him on a pedestal. Every one of us has done things of which we're not proud. I'm sure the same can be said for Jerry.

You're welcome to mock his faith. Yet, I have to wonder what it gains you? Are you determined to convince the world that your views are correct? Saving America from the coming Theocracy?

Finally, it really doesn't matter what we think. The man outlasted 6,357 other players. As the last man standing, he wears the bracelet of the 2007 main event champion.

Frankly, with UIGEA, I can't imagine a more positive face to put forward as the poker ambassador for the next year.

Kevroc

07-23-2007, 03:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What happens in Phuket, stays in Phuket...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Noes! They be stealin' my Phuket!!

Brad1970

07-23-2007, 09:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Out of all of the world's major religion's you can go and visit the grave/tomb/burial site of the religion's founder. Muhammad, founder of Islam, is a good example. Budda is another.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except, you know, for those religions that have no specific founder, like Hinduism or Judaism. Or, you know, those religions where you can (or could) visit the tomb of the founder like Manichaeism or Zoroasterism.

Claiming a religious truth is one thing; claiming the truth is founded upon the gravesite of a single founder is idiocy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You totally missed the point. I never said it was 'founded' on a gravesite. The fact that Jesus does not have a gravesite is testimony to the fact that he arose from the dead & ascended into heaven.

Jasper109

07-23-2007, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a man that values his faith more than he values how the public will perceive him. He is willing to be called a fool for what he believes in. You may see foolishness. I see courage.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so how about if I was at the FT of the main event and I was a believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

As the flop was about to be dealt I prayed to the monster for a good flop so I could praise his virtues to the whole world.

Now be honest, would you think I had courage, or would you think I was a candidate for a straight jacket?

For some of us there is really no difference between what Jerry Yang was doing and what I have just described.

Zetack

07-23-2007, 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
.

This is a man that values his faith more than he values how the public will perceive him. He is willing to be called a fool for what he believes in. You may see foolishness. I see courage.

You're welcome to mock his faith. Yet, I have to wonder what it gains you? Are you determined to convince the world that your views are correct? Saving America from the coming Theocracy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't mock him for his faith. I think his expression of his faith at points was inappropriate at best, and offensive at worst.

I would have no problem with a man who prays:

Lord, let me play to the best of my ability, help me to be focused and play in the moment, and help me to have the wisdom to recognize my opportunities and the discipline to avoid the mistakes I recognize. If it be your will that I win this tournament, Lord, I thank you for your grace and will endeavor to glorify your name. It it be your will that I not win this tournament, I thank you for your grace and will endeavor to glorify your name. Amen."

But praying to God to intervene in a specific hand, to essentially bless your outcome and forsake your opponent is kinda icky.

entertainme

07-23-2007, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]

OK, so how about if I was at the FT of the main event and I was a believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

As the flop was about to be dealt I prayed to the monster for a good flop so I could praise his virtues to the whole world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you see foolishness. No problem. Of course you're entitled to your opinion.

entertainme

07-23-2007, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]

But praying to God to intervene in a specific hand, to essentially bless your outcome and forsake your opponent is kinda icky.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this is worthy of debate, though probably not here.

My main point was that I liked this guy after his interview and think he'll be good for the reputation of poker.

ibluffoldladies

07-23-2007, 03:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I agree this is worthy of debate, though probably not here.

My main point was that I liked this guy after his interview and think he'll be good for the reputation of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think Yang was trying to be a jackass with his faith. He is a simple, God-fearing man; probably ignorant about the ways of the world. But, can you blame him? I haven't walked in his shoes, but his story is incredible. I'm willing to side with entertainme and give Yang the benefit of doubt. At first, I hated him for spewing his faith in front of everybody. Then, I thought about it and realized this is the only way he understands.

Jasper109

07-23-2007, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I agree this is worthy of debate, though probably not here.

My main point was that I liked this guy after his interview and think he'll be good for the reputation of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think Yang was trying to be a jackass with his faith. He is a simple, God-fearing man; probably ignorant about the ways of the world. But, can you blame him? I haven't walked in his shoes, but his story is incredible. I'm willing to side with entertainme and give Yang the benefit of the doubt. At first, I hated him for spewing his faith in front of everybody. Then, I thought about it and realized this is the only way he understands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well put. Given what he's gone through in his life, I have some sympathy for him.

Still, the fact that he is obviously a very intelligent man and still believes in imaginary things influencing poker tournaments is kind of troubling to me.

BarryLyndon

07-23-2007, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My lack of faith is clearly holding me back.

Yang:

I was in the BB with A3 and kind of short. UTG raised and someone reraised I looked at A3s in the BB and said please lord let me win this and I will forever praise you and your glory. So I shipped it with the A3. He had KK. I said please lord jesus and whoever else up there help me.

BOOM WHEEL!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, A+. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barry

Zetack

07-23-2007, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But praying to God to intervene in a specific hand, to essentially bless your outcome and forsake your opponent is kinda icky.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this is worthy of debate, though probably not here.

My main point was that I liked this guy after his interview and think he'll be good for the reputation of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.

JooWish622

07-23-2007, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After just winning 8M the following exchange takes place between Yang and Chad (taken from Pauly's Tao of Poker):

'When Norman Chad asked him if he was having the best day of his life, Yang mentioned that when he came to America for the first time, "It was the first day I found freedom. My family tried to escape Laos and we failed. They (communist regime) hunted us down. Then we escaped to Thailand. When I found out that we were going to America was the happiest day of my life."'

Talk about having your priorties straight! Turns out though that lots of people are upset with him 'cause he wears his faith on his sleeve...but isn't that what the freedom of this great nation allows? Maybe Pauly said it best when he went on to comment:

'"... A devout Christian and religious man like Jerry Yang can help draw positive attention to the poker community. Poker can be a conduit for goodwill. Sure it's a form of gambling, but so is beating the stock market. Heck, praying for an imaginary being (aka God) is the ultimate gamble. What's the difference between shoving all in with a Big Slick vs. a middle pair and believing in God? There is none. Both are coinflip situations. God either exists or doesn't. That's a race situation that church goers gamble with every single Sunday."'

I know one bet that's not a coin flip: having Jerry Yang as poker's ambassador for the next year...that's a slam dunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was actually Pascal who demonstrated that believing in God is a +EV wager. After all, if you don't believe in God, you only get looked up when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

untrue. your more intellectual and less self-deceiving friends will mock you if you believe in GOd.

Nuff

07-24-2007, 01:28 AM

How can I not love him? Easily. His behavior at the table was extremely offensive to me.

Not only was he offensive and rude with the in your face praying that was insulting to his opponents.

Not only did he run around yelling louder than anyone else at the table when his horrible calls won.

He also would force a hug on opponents after knocking them out and make comments such as "you have a friend for life". How is that anything but offensive when you've been knocked out by a donky who likes calling all in's with A9o and what were the others, J8o I believe was one?

The real question is how can anyone possibly not be offended by this guy's behavior?

Zetack

07-24-2007, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Out of all of the world's major religion's you can go and visit the grave/tomb/burial site of the religion's founder. Muhammad, founder of Islam, is a good example. Budda is another.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except, you know, for those religions that have no specific founder, like Hinduism or Judaism. Or, you know, those religions where you can (or could) visit the tomb of the founder like Manichaeism or Zoroasterism.

Claiming a religious truth is one thing; claiming the truth is founded upon the gravesite of a single founder is idiocy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You totally missed the point. I never said it was 'founded' on a gravesite. The fact that Jesus does not have a gravesite is testimony to the fact that he arose from the dead & ascended into heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but his dad has some issues:

Why God Never Received Tenure at the University

1. He had only one major publication.
2. And it was in Hebrew.
3. And it had no cited references.
4. And it wasn't published in a refereed journal or even submitted for peer review.
5. And some even doubt he wrote it himself.
6. It may be true that he created the world but what has he done since?
7. His cooperative efforts have been quite limited.
8. The scientific community has had a very rough time trying to replicate his results.
9. He never applied to the Ethics Board for permission to use human subjects.
10. When one experiment went awry, he tried to cover it up by drowning the subjects.
11. When subjects didn't behave as predicted, he often punished them, or just deleted them from the sample.
12. He rarely came to class, just told students to read the book.
13. He had his son teach the class.
14. He expelled his first two students for learning.
15. Although there were only ten requirements, most students failed his tests.
16. His office hours were infrequent and usually held on a mountaintop.