The Moneymaker Effect Pt II - The Yang Addendum [Archive]

seemorenuts

07-19-2007, 01:52 PM

Sorry to repeat this, but I don't get any feedback on why it isn't a good set of ideas:

1. some day it might take any WSOP champion to help the poker community by signing up with a rakefree poker site, to end the ridiculous prevalence of players' expectations that they have to pay a rake. Since it is hopeful that any new champion will have more than enough money to live on, and who might not even want to play poker much afterwards (a la Yang) a reasonable deal can be struck with a site such as wsex.com (and I am not advocating any specific site, rather the idea that if any sites offer something very generous and advantageous to players as a whole, then it seems that the collective intelligence would work to reciprocate capitalize on this eventually, in its own interests) where the champion could even hope that players could voluntarily opt for parts of their 100% rakeback be contributed to charities of their choice (hearkening back to a Yang-like disposition, though prior to Negreanu's move to stars I had suggested this idea several times--no doubt Negreanu knows what is best for him, but what about the rest of the poker paying public?) and this could even be done via the float's interest or parlaying sports bets with charity to get that extra entertainment bang.

Are you following me so far? (and yes, it doesn't take brains to try and shoot it down, rather, it takes persistence and brains to get this idea started).

2. collective power amongst poker players can do several amazing and positive things if channeled logically. For instance, the concept of tipping in a more centralized manner (again with free choice for all) where players opt out of the usual routine (wear a button and tell your dealer) and contribute to an annual (or any periodic) award, however imperfectly constructed, to the best dealers in the world. We are talking about tips that must exceed $100M to $200M annually, so why not disburse these through fairly audited and judged merit based metrics? The joke being that an annual $100M winner-take-all (just one variant) prize would facilitate a quantum leap in dealing quality and you'd get brain surgeons vying for that prize, hence a better pool of talent for new dealers. Meanwhile, casinos would have to pick up the slack and pay decent wages etc. during the quick transition. Imagine any dealer paying attention so carefully all year to keep the lowest error rate possible and to be fair to all players, and whatever else it takes to excel, etc. The best deserve to be rewarded, (it's the American way, lol) the general manner with which most of us are ROUTINELY tipping today UTTERLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FAILS TO ACHIEVE MUCH OF ITS PURPOSE AND POTENTIAL.

It's not the specificity of the ideas I'm pushing that matters, but the lost opportunities of MANY well-considered methods of improving the QUALITY AND VALUE OF EXPERIENCE FOR ALL POKER PLAYERS THAT IS VERY PUZZLING TO ME.

The reason it doesn't happen is only because unorganized players play for various other reasons, entertainment, compulsion, and action.

Once we use our heads, with the appropriate reasoning and talent, guys like Raymer, Lederer, Ferguson, Bloch, Negreanu and any next generic champion could wake up and lead us.

I'd lead but you guys don't know who the hell I am.

So step up, somebody. Please. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

coyote

07-19-2007, 01:56 PM

tl;dnr

Jurollo

07-19-2007, 02:03 PM

A) Not even close

B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

seemorenuts

07-19-2007, 02:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dnr

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey. Thanks for taking your precious time to post.

Guess you prefer books with pictures, eh? /images/graemlins/mad.gif

recipro

07-19-2007, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope they don't. If the live PPV hadn't broadcast that or his screams, he would have been a lot more popular with everyone.

TMTTR

07-19-2007, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
. . . and Jerry Yang isn't the folksy guy from the midwest. . .

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO - Tennessee is now in the Midwest?

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO -- selective quotations...

Relax buddy, if that makes you laugh your a** off, then it don't take much. -- I said middle America when talking about Moneymaker and never said he was from the midwest. It is probably what I meant to type for Yang as well, but went too quickly.

Middle America is a purposefully much more vague term.

Moneyball16

07-19-2007, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]
I bet ESPN wont show Humberto being a douche either. LOLOLOLOLOL

TMTTR

07-19-2007, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tl;dnr

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey. Thanks for taking your precious time to post.

Guess you prefer books with pictures, eh? /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

it was too long -- but it is also too confusing and has nothing to do with the theme of this thread. Why not start your own thread about how poker champions can make the world (poker world and broader world) a better place and not hijack this one?

seemorenuts

07-19-2007, 03:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tl;dnr

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey. Thanks for taking your precious time to post.

Guess you prefer books with pictures, eh? /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

it was too long -- but it is also too confusing and has nothing to do with the theme of this thread. Why not start your own thread about how poker champions can make the world (poker world and broader world) a better place and not hijack this one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you do me a favor?

Paste my post into a new thread and take credit for it.

I assure you, it's sheer genius if you take the time to read it--for it's simplicity and veracity.

The point remains, why be a douche and post tl; dnr?

Try reading it one sentence a day.

maryfield48

07-19-2007, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tl;dnr

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey. Thanks for taking your precious time to post.

Guess you prefer books with pictures, eh? /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

it was too long -- but it is also too confusing and has nothing to do with the theme of this thread. Why not start your own thread about how poker champions can make the world (poker world and broader world) a better place and not hijack this one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you do me a favor?

Paste my post into a new thread and take credit for it.

I assure you, it's sheer genius if you take the time to read it--for it's simplicity and veracity.

The point remains, why be a douche and post tl; dnr?

Try reading it one sentence a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

tl;dnr

Phanekim

07-19-2007, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A) Not even close

B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]

lol why not. I think it'd be awesome. I found it annoying but it'd sure make a great story.

robracing

07-19-2007, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I assure you, it's sheer genius if you take the time to read it--for it's simplicity and veracity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmmmh....

200 posts, 3 stars, ...

Obviously a genius at work!

AbZurrrd

07-19-2007, 04:02 PM

what's the *** for? Can you explain?

robracing

07-19-2007, 04:05 PM

Stars are handed down by the board moderators, for posting something offensive, illegal or downright stupid.

TMTTR

07-19-2007, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Try reading it one sentence a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK.

[ QUOTE ]
some day it might take any WSOP champion to help the poker community by signing up with a rakefree poker site, to end the ridiculous prevalence of players' expectations that they have to pay a rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sentences generally start with capital letters. Assuming this is a "sentence" it makes little sense. It appears you mean to use the indefinite word "someday" but instead use the two words "some day."

You say that "it might take any WSOP champion to help the poker community" -- what does that phrase mean? Do you mean to say "A WSOP champion might help the poker community" by "signing up" with a "rakefree" poker site?

And by "signing up" do you mean getting an account with a site that does not collect rake or do you require that the player actually sign a sponsorship agreement with such a site?

What if that site does not offer him the compensation that PokerStars or FTP offers?

And how would this unnamed "any WSOP champion" end a "ridiculous prevalance" in "players' expectations"? Try not using large words unnecessarily...

Instead you might consider saying that "If a World Series of Poker champion was to agree to promote one of the poker sites that does not charge rake (or rebates 100% of the rake to the players), he might persuade many more players that they do not have to pay rake to play poker online."

There is the sentence for today. If I feel the urge, we will go to the next sentence tomorrow. Better yet, if you believe you have something important to offer and want to persuade us, why don't you take the time necessary to think carefully about what you are going to say and how are you going to say it before you spew it to the world?

Have a good evening.

robracing

07-19-2007, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Try reading it one sentence a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK.

[ QUOTE ]
some day it might take any WSOP champion to help the poker community by signing up with a rakefree poker site, to end the ridiculous prevalence of players' expectations that they have to pay a rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sentences generally start with capital letters. Assuming this is a "sentence" it makes little sense. It appears you mean to use the indefinite word "someday" but instead use the two words "some day."

You say that "it might take any WSOP champion to help the poker community" -- what does that phrase mean? Do you mean to say "A WSOP champion might help the poker community" by "signing up" with a "rakefree" poker site?

And by "signing up" do you mean getting an account with a site that does not collect rake or do you require that the player actually sign a sponsorship agreement with such a site?

What if that site does not offer him the compensation that PokerStars or FTP offers?

And how would this unnamed "any WSOP champion" end a "ridiculous prevalance" in "players' expectations"? Try not using large words unnecessarily...

Instead you might consider saying that "If a World Series of Poker champion was to agree to promote one of the poker sites that does not charge rake (or rebates 100% of the rake to the players), he might persuade many more players that they do not have to pay rake to play poker online."

There is the sentence for today. If I feel the urge, we will go to the next sentence tomorrow. Better yet, if you believe you have something important to offer and want to persuade us, why don't you take the time necessary to think carefully about what you are going to say and how are you going to say it before you spew it to the world?

Have a good evening.

[/ QUOTE ]

SKOOLED!

yimyammer

07-19-2007, 06:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dnr

[/ QUOTE ]

tl;dr

AbZurrrd

07-19-2007, 08:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Stars are handed down by the board moderators, for posting something offensive, illegal or downright stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh OK, thanks! Surprised I don't see that many *************************** then /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Keyser.

07-19-2007, 09:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A) Not even close

B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]

lol why not. I think it'd be awesome. I found it annoying but it'd sure make a great story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet they will. And even if they don't, I imagine he will be fairly public speaking about his religion and about how he donated 10% to his church or whatever (didn't he?). The tables will probably not be littered with religious folk now (who are by nature stupid and therefore bad at poker -- just kidding -- sort of) but it couldn't hurt.

Jurollo

07-19-2007, 09:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A) Not even close

B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]
no he gave money to:

the Make-A-Wish Foundation, Feed the Children, and the Ronald McDonald House

feed the children is loosely related to the catholic church

lol why not. I think it'd be awesome. I found it annoying but it'd sure make a great story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet they will. And even if they don't, I imagine he will be fairly public speaking about his religion and about how he donated 10% to his church or whatever (didn't he?). The tables will probably not be littered with religious folk now (who are by nature stupid and therefore bad at poker -- just kidding -- sort of) but it couldn't hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lampsteen

07-19-2007, 09:39 PM

Real Estate is location, location, location.

Poker is ESPN, ESPN, ESPN.

Moneymaker just happened to be the one who won when the four letter decided to take it big time.

Yes, he is "everyman" but television had more to do with it than anything.

yimyammer

07-19-2007, 10:05 PM

I think what will be interesting is to see how all this money effects his faith in the years to come.

Money can be the biggest test of one's faith and I wish him the best and hope he is well grounded.

Time will tell whether all this money destroys him like some of the lottery winners.

frommagio

07-19-2007, 10:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to repeat this, but I don't get any feedback on why it isn't a good set of ideas:

1. some day it might take any WSOP champion to help the poker community by signing up with a rakefree poker site, to end the ridiculous prevalence of players' expectations that they have to pay a rake. Since it is hopeful that any new champion will have more than enough money to live on, and who might not even want to play poker much afterwards (a la Yang) a reasonable deal can be struck with a site such as wsex.com (and I am not advocating any specific site, rather the idea that if any sites offer something very generous and advantageous to players as a whole, then it seems that the collective intelligence would work to reciprocate capitalize on this eventually, in its own interests) where the champion could even hope that players could voluntarily opt for parts of their 100% rakeback be contributed to charities of their choice (hearkening back to a Yang-like disposition, though prior to Negreanu's move to stars I had suggested this idea several times--no doubt Negreanu knows what is best for him, but what about the rest of the poker paying public?) and this could even be done via the float's interest or parlaying sports bets with charity to get that extra entertainment bang.

Are you following me so far? (and yes, it doesn't take brains to try and shoot it down, rather, it takes persistence and brains to get this idea started).

2. collective power amongst poker players can do several amazing and positive things if channeled logically. For instance, the concept of tipping in a more centralized manner (again with free choice for all) where players opt out of the usual routine (wear a button and tell your dealer) and contribute to an annual (or any periodic) award, however imperfectly constructed, to the best dealers in the world. We are talking about tips that must exceed $100M to $200M annually, so why not disburse these through fairly audited and judged merit based metrics? The joke being that an annual $100M winner-take-all (just one variant) prize would facilitate a quantum leap in dealing quality and you'd get brain surgeons vying for that prize, hence a better pool of talent for new dealers. Meanwhile, casinos would have to pick up the slack and pay decent wages etc. during the quick transition. Imagine any dealer paying attention so carefully all year to keep the lowest error rate possible and to be fair to all players, and whatever else it takes to excel, etc. The best deserve to be rewarded, (it's the American way, lol) the general manner with which most of us are ROUTINELY tipping today UTTERLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FAILS TO ACHIEVE MUCH OF ITS PURPOSE AND POTENTIAL.

It's not the specificity of the ideas I'm pushing that matters, but the lost opportunities of MANY well-considered methods of improving the QUALITY AND VALUE OF EXPERIENCE FOR ALL POKER PLAYERS THAT IS VERY PUZZLING TO ME.

The reason it doesn't happen is only because unorganized players play for various other reasons, entertainment, compulsion, and action.

Once we use our heads, with the appropriate reasoning and talent, guys like Raymer, Lederer, Ferguson, Bloch, Negreanu and any next generic champion could wake up and lead us.

I'd lead but you guys don't know who the hell I am.

So step up, somebody. Please. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

After a single 177 word sentence, you ask "Are you following me so far?", and then you proceed to emit another few hefty blocks of total gibberish. Somehow, I don't think you give a damn about the answer.

Despite the genius displayed by Jack Kerouac in his wonderful novel On the Road, not every scatter-shot sequence of random verbiage is a work of art.

Have some self-respect man. Your parents and your neighbors paid property taxes so that you could learn the basic stuff by sixth grade. You should be embarrassed by this drivel.

tpir

07-19-2007, 10:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope they don't. If the live PPV hadn't broadcast that or his screams, he would have been a lot more popular with everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
It wasn't broadcast so much as everyone's microphone was just up the entire time. I am sure they will edit Yang's antics out, but we got to hear it all, even when he was screaming away from the table. hycahcyahcyahasppft.

frommagio

07-19-2007, 10:29 PM

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:09 AM

Wow, you guys are such morons.

I scored in the 99.99998th percentile in all portions of the Four Sigma test, which is not designed to accurately measure beyond the level I surpassed.

I scored two 800s in the GRE with about 30 minutes to spare in 1986.

Sklansky often has typos, so I will strive to increase mine just to annoy you idiots.

Yeah, thrilling rebuttals, an ad hominem attack re *** (one post in OOT, it was the moderator's prejudice and stupidity), and wow, missing capital letters, oooh ...somedayyouwillallunderstandnot.

So, you are really too dense to understand my post?

Do you realize I do this for free? Other geniuses charge!

Do you understand that I've repeated it so often that I type 84 words a minute because I'm so brilliant?

Idon'thave togive you perfectspelling orgrammar but you morons miss the ideasthatserve your interests!

Somedayyouwillsee, I offersavingsand service today, but youwill take it someday in thefutureinstead aw3robod!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:23 AM

i have a nest of two pigeon chicks by my mansion, i Will now put one in a pickle jar and the other under a box

the mother will fret

i will eat a pigeon for din-din tonight

and another for breakfast

yum

unless you tell the dealers no more tipping for crappy service!

and one of you win next year's WSOP mE to do what I said, or I will win it and show you.

rake-free poker 4 all, do you get it now? hmmMmmmmMmmmMh?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:29 AM

ask your dealer for his/her email address, so you can tip via paypal instead of diluting their pooled tips with non-dealers

if the management thwarts you, here's how you modify your approach

assuming one casino per zip code, ask the dealer what his/her favorite number is (coded by "how many children do you have? so as to allow them to give you their chosen number without punishment).

Then you know beforehand because of my magnificent post here

yes here!

here?

yes!!

that the syntax to paypal them is...:;#

first name dot favorite number dot zip code @gmail.com

so you can tip them for great service, and not get bad service for those who don't deserve nuthin

now do you see yet more of my genius?

and the casinos, they have to respond by paying more!

ah haha hah aha

another brilliant idea cumming in a few minutes...

after I take a dump

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:35 AM

okey you [censored] maorans, here's yett another genius idea from me

what's the combined dollar amount that all pokersites expend sponsoring their selfish self-intersted stars?

NOW, listen up dummies, what's the combined rake world wide in the same time period?

NOw, for you imbiciles, what's the combined annual tips in any given year, and by the way stupid, hw are your liking the service? [censored], right?

yeah, now do some math and correct the probl;em, ducy?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:43 AM

Poker economics is in the dark ages, you guys are fools right now.

Corporations shoudl be paying us to be seen.

We shoulldn't have to pay rake, it's gifted to us by wsex and you maorians don'teven pappreciate it.

we should award $100M, $200M prizes to the best dealers annually, for merit.

I know a great dealer in Niagara Falls, Hi Kevin!

so far I know no better dealer in the US, Hey Kev, you want $200M this year? Keep up your usual great work, you deserve a $1B afaic.

Brain surgeons, hedgefundmanagerse, line up, deal for us at our pleasrue. get it now? maorians.

Matt Williams

07-20-2007, 07:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I scored two 800s in the GRE with about 30 minutes to spare in 1986.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL at you bragging about something in 1986. Let me guess... You were in EXPO when you were in the 5th grade too? Can I be your friend? Or do you just live in the past?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:51 AM

Customer: Hey professor, great deal of that last hand, I like how you kept order at the table, by the way, using the Rome II protocols, what do you think of my diagnosis for irritable bowel syndrome (diarrhea)?

Dealer: I'm an astronomy professor.

Customer: Oh, sorry about that, how are the wife, the kids, and the latest Lyman-alpha blob that is emanating from the anuses of the retarded posters responding the Great Seemorenuts coming along?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 07:52 AM

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:03 AM

I live in the present and the future.

Yes, I can travel to the future.

Here's what's going to happen soon, and my genius got the ball rolling, you Maorians.

Total poker tips worldwide annually (conservatively): $30.01B

Level of service extracted by these tips: zero, +/- $10K

New format of rewarding dealers:

Lowest error rates, best ability to explain questions politely, best personality, ability to keep game flowing, hands per down average, fairness and impariality are all measured at a cost of $10M annually.

This still leaves $30B to disburse as awards, with a possible Hall of Fame and other perks to multiple year winners.

Which do you prefer, dealers?

$30B annually to the best dealer, winner take all;

or $18B, $9B, $3B to the top three finishers?

....

$1B to the best 30 dealers per year?

....

$1M to the best 30000 dealers per year?

Hey, i got the numbers all wronge, but what do I now, I only gots the higheset high ghi hi iq that everyone is so damn jealous about, do you get it ow?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:08 AM

Oh crape, I forgot the interest on the float, that's mine to keep. azzholes!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:11 AM

Floor! Dealer change please!

This stephen hawkings sucks! How did he ever get hired!?

What an imbecilic management team they have at this casino!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:18 AM

Here's another fun game for those of you with a cruel bent who haven't figured it out yet:

At native casinos, the rules for the staff often are that they cannot comment about the lack of tips, so they can't annoy you or they risk suspension, etc. This includes the waitresses who bring you 'free' drinks.

So when the waitress brings you a drink, don't tip her, if she doesn't say or act in any manner resembling disappointment or sarcasm, then tip the dealer a buck.

If she/he does, don't tip anyone anything.

It entertains the dealer, who gets tipped for something he/she usually didn't earn... or have any control over because you all routinely tip irrespective of the merit, or they get chopped, etc.

YOU KNOW...

JUST LIKE YOU IDIOTS ARE DOING NOW MOST OF THE TIME, STATISTICALLY.

WHA HA HA HA HA...

so why the silence? you guys compiling a list of my speling aerroors? wha ha ha ha [deleted]...

RichGangi

07-20-2007, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A) Not even close

B) People saying he will bring the Jesus factor is just silly. ESPN will very likely not broadcast all that crap he said during allins

[/ QUOTE ]
Care to bet on this?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:29 AM

How do I know how stupid the average 2+2 poster is?

No one has yet acknowledged, let alone understood, these marvelously explicated ideas?

Shall I dumb it down yet another notch?

Or is some "leader" in the poker community going to wake up and take credit for my sheer unsurpassed genius and implement these OBVIOUS plans?

Ask me afterwards how to achieve peace in our time.

I'll tell you, but be obedient and obsequious, okay?

robracing

07-20-2007, 08:53 AM

Seemore; please tell me that you are only out for a short home visit, and that the doctors in white coats are going to be collecting you very soon!

Try this for an acknowledgement and rebuttal of your argument regarding rake-free poker:

I will always choose a raked and well-advertised poker site, over a virtually-underground rake-free site.

I want to play poker with drunk fools that don't even understand what rake is!

Why would I choose to play poker at a rake-free site where "thinking" poker players play? I like to play with players that don't think!

Believe me, my win rate will continue to comfortably cover the rake at Stars/Party/FT etc.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:54 AM

Remedial nugget #3Kx

The total amount that all poker sites combined pay to have pros play at and endorse their sites, to play in tournaments and advertise, represent the sites, is probably LESS THAN the combined rake taken in by all poker sites in a day or two.

So the current regime is positive EV on the face of it for about 200 or so pros, and negative EV for maybe 100-200M players, probably including YOU.

So how's this paradigm going to change?
There's hardly any short-term advantage for a sponsored pro with an IQ less than 170 to do anything.

This is why I used the idea of ANY future prominent (wsop) champ, who is probably in the negative EV camp right now.

Here's a version of the future champ's speech after winning the ME:

Hi guys, I want to thank everyone for making that great sacrifice in order to make me rich beyond my imagination, and in return, to express my gratitude; I'm going to sign up with WSEX.com and I urge you all to boycott all other sites overnight that charge a rake.

My arrangement with WSEX.com (or any other similar site) will make me NO MONEY, but they've pledged to donate $10M to "The fresh air foundation, Ronald McGreedy's house, and etc. Annually in perpetuity, or until cancer is cured."

So you see, I gain nothing from this but I urge you to switch because you've been ripped off so far in this industry's infancy, and as an additional bit of good news, I'd like to inform you that your weekly 100% rakeback gives you the option to either donate it to the charity of your choice, or keep it.

Moreover, you can have some fun donating it by placing a sports bet, and designate portion of any profit to a charity too! Fun, eh? We're winners all-round. I hope that these rake grubbing pokersites will beg your forgiveness, but they don't deserve it because they didn't act proactively before I won to do anything for you, the poker customer. So I recommend humbly that you move wholesale, all of you, to wsex.com and then, and only then, reevaluate what these other sites have to offer, and then I suggest you turn them down, and work with the site that cared about you before you did anything for them. Err, thank you, I wish to thank Seemore Nuts, genius and friend, oh wait, that's me! ha ha, never mind...."

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 08:59 AM

to the 200 or so pros that are sponsored by various poker sites today:

Thanks for NOTHING.

WE WILL MAKE WHOEVER TURNS POKER INTO A RAKE FREE ENVIRONMENT OUR TRUE AND RESPECTED HERO AND FRIEND.

APPARENTLY NONE OF YOU HAVE STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE, DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT IT'S NET POSITIVE EV FOR YOU AS WELL AS THE REST OF US? POKER WOULD EXPLODE IF IT WERE RAKE FREE ONLINE. THE B&M CASINO INDUSTRY WOULD ALSO HAVE TO ADAPT, CORPORATE SPONSORS WOULD HAVE TO ADD VALUE, BUT YOU ARE TOO SHORTSIGHTED OR SELFISH TO REALIZE/ACCEPT THIS.

AGAIN, THANKS FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

WE WILL NEVER ASK FOR YOUR BOBBLEHEAD AGAIN... LOL.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Seemore; please tell me that you are only out for a short home visit, and that the doctors in white coats are going to be collecting you very soon!

Try this for an acknowledgement and rebuttal of your argument regarding rake-free poker:

I will always choose a raked and well-advertised poker site, over a virtually-underground rake-free site.

I want to play poker with drunk fools that don't even understand what rake is!

Why would I choose to play poker at a rake-free site where "thinking" poker players play? I like to play with players that don't think!

Believe me, my win rate will continue to comfortably cover the rake at Stars/Party/FT etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

WSEX.COM IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING UNDERGROUND, CHECK out THEIR FINANCIAL POSITION AND APOLOGIZE LATER.

YOUR EVALUATION IS STATIC, WE LIVE IN A WORLD THAT CHANGES.
WE USED TO GET TAXED BY KINGS, AND WE COULDN'T OWN LAND, REMEMBER? "WHY WOULD I BE DISLOYAL TO MY KING, WHO PROTECTS ALL HIS SERFS?" GET IT? Would you like a simpler example?

THE FIRST STEP IS TO VERIFY HOW OBVIOUS THE IMPROVEMENT IS, and at what cost. THE BIG SITES ARE CHUCKLING THAT ONE OR TWO DAY'S RAKE COVERS ALL THEIR SPONSORSHIP EXPENDITURES, AND MAYBE A FEW WEEKS OF RAKE COVERS ALL THEIR ADVERTISING. YET THEY ARE SHAKING IN THEIR BOOTS BECAUSE A GENIUS IS TRYING TO POINT OUT TO MORONS THAT THINGS CAN AND WILL CHANGE. (I'M HUMORING THEM BY DUMBING DOWN THE MESSAGE... SO THEY WON'T PUT A HIT ON ME...WHA HA HA HA, IS THAT ENTERTAINING ENOUGH FOR YOU?) you seriously think they haven't thought of how online poker will evolve? why aren't they moving proactively? because you guys are collectively suckers, right?

YOU'D MORE THAN DOUBLE YOUR EARN IF THERE WAS NO RAKE, AND THINK OF THE VAST, EXPONENTIAL INCREASE OF FISH ENTERING INTO A RAKEFREE ENVIRONMENT! IT WOULD TAKE MUCH LONGER FOR THEM TO GO BROKE, AND LONGER TO GET FED UP! GET IT NOW?

Shall i make the points simpler? Huh? Do you get it?
How's your iq doing? eh? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh, ha ha, white coats! I gets it! oh, you are so funy!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 09:11 AM

follow the money

look at the numbers

$$$$

money

#s

look

change

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 09:23 AM

Let's see. $30B US to the best dealer in the world annually.

...And the Nominations are:

Angelina Jolie, topless;

Gisele B., topless;

Jerry Seinfeld, topless;

Catherine Zeta-Jones, topless;

Miss Universe, topless;

Nicole Kidman, topless;

Rosie O'Donnell, bagged;

...

do you get it now?

is it simple enough for you now?

do you know how long the application line-up would be to work as a dealer?

Rolen

07-20-2007, 09:28 AM

You're a nutter

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 09:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're a nutter

[/ QUOTE ]

for your information, Pokerstars, FullTilt, Pokerstars, and four other networks are each paying me $100K per week to 'discredit' these ideas, so you'll never benefit from them. They tell me it's chump change.

So, thank you for your support. ... and keep disbelieving, do tell your friends about this silly thread.

govman6767

07-20-2007, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I scored two 800s in the GRE with about 30 minutes to spare in 1986.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL at you bragging about something in 1986. Let me guess... You were in EXPO when you were in the 5th grade too? Can I be your friend? Or do you just live in the past?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude : It's all part of your sick cyntiha thing. Going to her synagoge, watching her dog........Your living in the $%^&*(* past man.

Walter 3000 years of beautiful tradition from moses to sandy kofax.... Your %^& ^&*( right I'm living in the %$#$^& past. I'M

Bdidd

07-20-2007, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, you guys are such morons.

I scored in the 99.99998th percentile in all portions of the Four Sigma test, which is not designed to accurately measure beyond the level I surpassed.

I scored two 800s in the GRE with about 30 minutes to spare in 1986.

Sklansky often has typos, so I will strive to increase mine just to annoy you idiots.

Yeah, thrilling rebuttals, an ad hominem attack re *** (one post in OOT, it was the moderator's prejudice and stupidity), and wow, missing capital letters, oooh ...somedayyouwillallunderstandnot.

So, you are really too dense to understand my post?

Do you realize I do this for free? Other geniuses charge!

Do you understand that I've repeated it so often that I type 84 words a minute because I'm so brilliant?

Idon'thave togive you perfectspelling orgrammar but you morons miss the ideasthatserve your interests!

Somedayyouwillsee, I offersavingsand service today, but youwill take it someday in thefutureinstead aw3robod!

[/ QUOTE ]

Beat: explaining to someone about how intelligent you are

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:03 AM

Do you think Angelina Jolie would deal cards top&bottom-less out of her 'you know what' for your table if she thought she had a chance at the annual cumulative tip prize of $30Gazillion?

She'd be able to adopt a country full of kids in a refugee camp! All thanks to you!

Mmmm, Angelina nekked! I luv her.

TMTTR

07-20-2007, 10:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
do you get it now?

is it simple enough for you now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I get it. Someone is off his meds.

Dear Mr. Moderator,

Can we give this gentleman a time out?

Thanks.

TMTTR

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:15 AM

I welcome you to report me to the dumb moderators.

I get a multimillion dollar bonus from those poker-sites for getting banned. Lol.

Do you get it now?

Hey, TMTTR let's assume your IQ is 101, which is above average.

The fun and stimulation I have interacting with you is analogous to you interacting with a rock! Get it? Do you see how fun this is for me now? Not very fun, like you talking to a rock! and i'm not even exaggerating! wha ha ha ha... a rock!

IQseemore/IQtmttr ~ IQtmttr/IQrock

ah ha ha ha aho ho ho ho ho...

Keep paying rake, suckers!

Keep tipping mechanically so as to discourage the best dealers from trying or caring!

ah ha ha ha, that's two concepts, in case you guys missed them...

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:18 AM

P.S. moderators

you may suspend my account, but please do not remove the thread, why?

If you remove the thread, then I am contractually obligated to repeat my ideas here on this forum until the wacky ideas are permanently on display, so that makes more work for you and for me... okay? Deal?

Hey, that dinosaur that was seen in the Pacific, as well as on the grave of some 14th century English dude, not to mention the stegosaurus in Cambodian and other Asian museums (well guarded from shenanigans)... how did they appear there?

I'm an atheist and I still can't figure it all out, but hey, ban me from OOT because your brains are so teeny, wha ha ha ha, Idiots (as in those who believe in Idi Amin)!!!

hav a nice day!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:24 AM

BTW, for more genius ideas from me, check out Sklansky's Special Forum, topic entitled "Rate this Edge" and see how the original insult forced me to clarify my genius to maorians, lol, which i know is so uncool to do, sorta like being better looking in public to evoke jealousy, Brad Pitt has no right to step out in public because he's too good looking, same thing with smarts! ha ha

analogy:

beauty is to fashion as

intelligence is to ________?

"rate this edge" has a brilliant question posed by David Sklansky.

It will stand the test of time, my contributions there, even though no one understands 1% of it now... wha ha ha ha ha....

Yang did the same thing as Gold did previously, disruption, priming, setting thresholds, setting norms, all old hat, but the key is the persistence concept in EV calculations across a series of hands, not just one hand in isolation.

Like I said, the only Pro I know who knows this is Doyle Brunson, probably others have grasped it but now it is necessary to use it to win big tourneys, bah aha ha haha...

Mommy!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:29 AM

Anyone know if eating pigeons in an urban setting is a parasite free practice?

What temperature, and for how long?

I hold at least 6 world records, including biggest financial decision ever made by an individual, but Guiness told me they had no categories for my records, so YOU will never know! Wha ha, get Guiness to clean up their act and come to me on their knees!

six world records! at least!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:35 AM

Guys, I was just kiding around about not being able to spel.

Kindly look at the content if you can understand the ideas and please refrain from ad hymenal attacks, thanks!

I was being falsely immodest about that 99.999998th percentile, there were no eights, just nines, and yes, i didn't add any nines.

I think the next president of the excited states of america should be restricted to jews and Asians, since the current restricted subpopulation has been doing such a swell job.

Ditto for university enrollments, only jews and asians, the rest can deal cards... from a planetary, representative population kinda point of view.

Okay, i'm stepping over the line now, I am just kidding in this post. Obama in 08, yes! Justice! Go Obama!!

world peace in our time, gravel or kucinich for vp!

ah, Mammy am I goot? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

My pigeon needs extra napkins
1!1

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:45 AM

I want to aks you all a question, do I sound smarter than a rock?

i.e. an inanimate object, no mouth, no anus, just a rock!

I think i make enough sense to appear smarter than a rock.

Soo now you only have some idea as to whot it's liek for me, every day, since I was born, to ahve to put up with people so dumb in comparison to me.

it has been tough, and this is cathartic for me, but i need more. Thanks you to indulge in my healing.

can someone post like a roc? i want to talk to a rock.

it's lonely being a genius, i only have my genius and penius. is there any smart women out there for me? please pm me, tahnks. i am fully functional.

by by

Hi Mommy!

ibluffoldladies

07-20-2007, 10:51 AM

Am I the only person who sees the irony of a genius acting like an idiot?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only person who sees the irony of a genius acting like an idiot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ha! My very first fan! I am redeemed!

Mommy! Mommy, come and look! I luv you!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:18 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wholeness_and_the_Implicate_Order

I've just traveled to the future and I'm back to file a report, I like to call it a downdate, in contradistinction to an update, ha ha.

I won't delve too deeply into the details, but just think about a Vanilla Sky world, and the logical virtual logistical tricks that hupeeps have. Oh, that's the new name for humans, hupeeps, ha ha, sorry, I have to get back to 2008's lexicon. What year is it exactly?

Anyhoo, I'm experiencing this future casino, and guess who the dealers are? Anyone?

Imagine an improvement of all the nekked females that are considered beautiful, well now they're funny and solicitous at the same time!

That's not all, for the gals there are Brucewillis, Jimcarrey, Jonstewart and Jerrylewis dealing! Somehow the Robinwilliams model didn't work out, he slowed the game down too much! Oh, and for some reason Paulyshore snuck in there somehow! (Yeah, I know, the word was sneaked, oh well.)

though lifespans are 150 years or more on occasion, the Vanilla Sky like hospices are cool, you can choose the ending where you win the WSOP many times in a row, lol, so you guys don't need to try so hard right now, visit the beach, keep fit, and remember, smoke tobacco!

Yes, Woody Allen was right! Smoking is good for you! I know, it sounds like I stole the joke but it's true!

Oh, and prior to the virtual casinos, tipping went the way I predicted, as did rakefree poker, which died out two years after this thread was created, cool, huh?

So have some fun bashing seemore, it'll be the last chance to insult your better! Ha ha, what a moron, that seemore!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Moneymaker arose as televised poker (lipstack cams, etc.) and Internet Poker (Party, PS, etc.) were breaking out big in popularity. The fact that he looks like every dumb schmuck from middle America made it very easy for your average young male American to think -- HEY! if he could do it, I could do it!

Now, there are far fewer people that don't know about the existence of "organized" poker (as opposed to kitchen table poker), there are new impedements to playing online, and Jerry Yang isn't the folksy guy from the midwest. His effect on the poker world and the recruitment of new player will be far smaller than Moneymaker's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ha ha ha, you are a zero now, from hero to zero, just on one word, ha ha, Mommy... I luv you!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:25 AM

Oh yeah, and there's Sklansky's forum's thread on Volleyball players, check it out to see what a genius I am!

Hee hee, be nice! It's all true! No jokes, no exaggeration!

Ha ha, putnam question solved on sight while reading it, ha ha ha...

TMTTR

07-20-2007, 11:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Moneymaker arose as televised poker (lipstack cams, etc.) and Internet Poker (Party, PS, etc.) were breaking out big in popularity. The fact that he looks like every dumb schmuck from middle America made it very easy for your average young male American to think -- HEY! if he could do it, I could do it!

Now, there are far fewer people that don't know about the existence of "organized" poker (as opposed to kitchen table poker), there are new impedements to playing online, and Jerry Yang isn't the folksy guy from the midwest. His effect on the poker world and the recruitment of new player will be far smaller than Moneymaker's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ha ha ha, you are a zero now, from hero to zero, just on one word, ha ha, Mommy... I luv you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Congratulations! You found a single spelling mistake! I am not saying I am perfect, I am only saying that the crack has made you unintelligible. Since you are living in the past (and future), I offer this to entertain you -- please sing aloud:

[ QUOTE ]
We've got a gorilla for sale
Magilla Gorilla for sale.
Won't you buy him,
Take him home and try him,
Gorilla for sale.
.
Don't you want a little gorilla you can call your own,
A gorilla who'll be with ya when you're all alone?
.
How much is that gorilla in the window?
.
Take our advice,
At any price,
A gorilla like Magilla is mighty nice.
Gorilla, Magilla Gorilla for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now sing it again! LOUDER!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:35 AM

Yang's actions were not unsurprising given the huge amount of the prize--this would have manifested itself during Gold's win if not for the complication--the notion of contributing is not new but it is easier to do with such large numbers.

It is simply the notion of such large numbers that motivated me to show you guys to put the bigger picture in perspective.

Alas, the bigger picture I see spanning maybe 50-100 years into our future is the folly of expecting this poker phenomenon to plateau, let alone to grow indefinitely--and it has been pointed out early enough by Malmuth, Miller, etc.

What will the plateau look like?

India and China are pumping out 50M engineers or more a year (close enough, correct my numbers, no probs), and where is the now-wealthy west headed?

People alive today probably don't have to worry one bit about that. It would be more enjoyable to have my two ideas implemented while we are still around for the ride--the sooner the better.

I kant spel!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Moneymaker arose as televised poker (lipstack cams, etc.) and Internet Poker (Party, PS, etc.) were breaking out big in popularity. The fact that he looks like every dumb schmuck from middle America made it very easy for your average young male American to think -- HEY! if he could do it, I could do it!

Now, there are far fewer people that don't know about the existence of "organized" poker (as opposed to kitchen table poker), there are new impedements to playing online, and Jerry Yang isn't the folksy guy from the midwest. His effect on the poker world and the recruitment of new player will be far smaller than Moneymaker's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ha ha ha, you are a zero now, from hero to zero, just on one word, ha ha, Mommy... I luv you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Congratulations! You found a single spelling mistake! I am not saying I am perfect, I am only saying that the crack has made you unintelligible. Since you are living in the past (and future), I offer this to entertain you -- please sing aloud:

[ QUOTE ]
We've got a gorilla for sale
Magilla Gorilla for sale.
Won't you buy him,
Take him home and try him,
Gorilla for sale.
.
Don't you want a little gorilla you can call your own,
A gorilla who'll be with ya when you're all alone?
.
How much is that gorilla in the window?
.
Take our advice,
At any price,
A gorilla like Magilla is mighty nice.
Gorilla, Magilla Gorilla for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now sing it again! LOUDER!

[/ QUOTE ]

You can understand my ideas, I know you can!
I didn't have to find the mistake, it was obvious when I speed-read it.

I implore you to guess what my ideas were, and admit that they are great ones.

Let me repeat for the sake of God!

rake is an obsolete fee in today's environment

the reward schedule is downright commie, tons of money could easily improve service from our dealers, don't you agree?

is that simple? can you refute those ideas?

can you see why?

oh please make me happy and understand, please don't be so stubborn, i know you are jealous of my high iq, but that's not everything! sometimes great ideas come from ordinary people liek you! I have faith in you!

ha ha liek, that's cool looking!

mommy, do you think it will take?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:44 AM

why do we pay rake?

we shouldn't have to pay any rake!

why do we tip the way we do, let's reward the best and forget the rest!

why are other athletes' incomes so well supplemented in comparison to poker players funding their own prize funds, and can we do anything to change that? at what cost to us?

If my ideas are not visible, could you guys please tell me how we can improve our poker world?

Or is the best that it gets?

The dealers' whining, is that the peak? Do you enjoy the whining? Should that be the topic of the day after the WSOP? is this the optimal solution to our poker land?

Mommy?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:46 AM

Please don't insult me, I'm paid to appear crazy like this, but stick to those topics .... rake, tips, sponsorship, can you do that to help yourselves? I'll stop if someone takes the lead and posts to set us in the right direction.

If you loathe this thread then start a new one and tell us the link.

for the love of God!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:52 AM

I refrained from using this analogy before, so I do so now reluctantly, but please don't obfuscate matters, and learn how to use an analogy (it's the similarities, not the differences that matter).

The US has a messed up political arena, partly due to the typical voter being slightly less attentive and numerate than the poker playing population (again, just the US).

We in the poker world are not encumbered by the complexity of the political financial levers and entrenched interests, etc.

Do you guys recall Sklansky's wise postings on how terrible politicians are and how he (and most of us) could do better?
One of the problems is artificial and daunting enough to stymie even Sklansky. People won't follow a great idea unless they can recognize <u>the man, the plan, and</u> sufficiently ignite the fans --this last component is critical, and in today's world it either takes $100-300M in the political world, or a WSOP ME bracelet to get the sufficient attention and platform.

So given our attentiveness and self-interest, it should be relatively trivial to change our own world.

1. no more rake, promise yourself, set a date

2. no more tipping inefficiently, reward great dealers!

3. no more freebies to corporations who won't remunerate players for their entertainment value.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 11:56 AM

How come I only get a response when I post a dumb speling error? Are you lurkers astounded by my ideas?

Where's the "I am Spartacus!" spirit?

Start other threads and I promise I won't comment in them if they are any good. Deal? Spread the word.

Change poker. It sucks today compared to what it could be.

TMTTR

07-20-2007, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I implore you to guess what my ideas were,

[/ QUOTE ]

And there lies the problem. Why should we have to guess what your ideas are. You might be curing cancer for all we know.

Actually, I got your idea on rake free sites -- I too have played at WSEX -- in fact, I think I have won some pretty nice pots from you. When their O8 games dried up, I moved elsewhere.

I don't necessarily understand your tipping ideas or how you think it could work given the masses of people doing things their own way.

I am done with this Symore. see you on the alternate plains of reality.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 12:12 PM

Ah yes, one person acting to play at WSEX, that's what I'm hammering on. Wow, you really are dense! One serf protesting the king ought to do it!

Wow, so not only did you not get it, you don't know that you didn't get it!

Use your imagination on the tipping concept.

Refuse to participate in the current tradition.

If insulted or asked why? ask for the dealer's email address so you can paypal him after you explain how.

Oh, a stupid idea if done in isolation, of course! (get it now? community action? get it?) but that's a start.

Now tip the best dealer you saw this year ONCE the sum that you would have disbursed over the entire year in the old fashion, what's that, $1000-$10000? depending on how much you play and tip.

So this dealer is going to get tax free(and so what if it's not) money on his paypal account, and you will take him aside and tell him why you thought he was so great, why he was the best.

So he may not tell anyone about this, but word will get out, and guess what? IF you do nothing else things will change.

And guess what? IF you have a handful of friends that you tell this story to, what do you think would happen?

They couldn't mock you because you delivered a $10000 tip to an actual single human being!

Wow, they might try the same thing...

Now condense this timeline a million billion fold, and get everyone to do this, and I'm telling you, moviestars will sit there and hope to win mega-pooled tips if we get our act together, as an illustration I used large and realistic numbers.

Calculate how much in tips the casino takes in, and figure out the math for the whole planet for the year. I'd say billions is the correct magnitude...

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 12:15 PM

P.S. I could cure cancer if you or society thought it was important enough to pay the discoverer(s) $100M each over 10 years, a bargain, given that we pay people to hit baseballs that much.

But I thought the poker world was more important, so here I am.

I will not disclose the cure to AIDS or other viruses until I'm paid $100T to do so, but trust me, it's a bargain.

Hey, should I do research because I love doing it?

Yes, if ball players can live with $50K-$500K a year for excelling at what they do merely because they love doing it . But I'm not holding my breath.

Angelina Jolie, dealing, naked, and loving her job, because we pay her so well--and well within our means!

I think it's called the free market--and the interference by the B&M casinos and our lazy tipping habits combine to destroy this market today.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 12:17 PM

Knowledge is power.

Mathematics facilitates mass action.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 12:27 PM

I have another point to add to the first three:

1. no more rake, promise yourself, set a date

2. no more tipping inefficiently, reward great dealers!

3. no more freebies to corporations who won't remunerate players for their entertainment value.

4. no more paying any respect to any pro who continues to be supported by a raked site, period. They are either with us or against us, and this time it actually makes sense. No one said it would be easy

Is it going to be difficult? It is a mathematical function of how many people can be persuaded to understand and act--not that complicated.

govman6767

07-20-2007, 12:36 PM

This guys gonna have more posts in a day then it took me a year in Iraq to get !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 12:36 PM

I could do this now, unilaterally. Watch.

1st step, isolate,

2nd set demands,

3rd set deadlines,

4th act:

Fill Tult, if you do not deliver incrementally better value (etc.) to the customer of quantity x by January 1, 2008, I advocate a complete boycott of your site by all players, on January 2, 2008, 12pm PST.

Now x can be as small or as large as you like, and it could be another site I target, but do you seriously think that if I got some support in this thread that these guys wouldn't be shaking in their #$$%*%^%% boots right now?

let x be 'a completely rake free poker environment,' let's set the bar high.

BTW, you don't even have to be reasonable.

Example? Saddam, you have 48 hours to get out of Iraq.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 12:44 PM

Now what does this site do to respond?

They research how other sites can offer rakefree poker.

Hmmm, a sports betting site, eh?

Okay, can we buy a sports betting site?

It doesn't really matter what they do, if the consumer demands it, they will just have to deliver it at a smaller profit than they used to. Nothing in capitalism is really so predictable, it's their problem, we will benefit no matter what? Have a look at the music industry (don't obfuscate, please).

Now isn't this better than what you are getting from paying a $100M to a ball player showing you his elegant home run hitting?

If I succeed, how much is it worth to the poker playing public? It's worth a trillion dollars over 30 years, without the interest.

Relax, I will donate it to charity, research, so we can all live 200 years. I promise.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 01:02 PM

The future:

William Shatner won the first $30B prize for best dealer.

Patrons were drawn to his quick yet stilted banter, while cracking great jokes about Sulu and Elephant poop.

That worked out to $82M per day, equivalent to 3 leading man's movie paydays, chirped a delighted Shatner.

The runner up, Patrick Stewart, declined to comment.

Also-ran Angelina Jolie is reported to plan two breast implants in her attempts to entertain the players with four breasts. Paris Hilton is upping the ante by having an additional two breasts implanted on her arms, but she has to work on her ability to correctly create side-pots.

Bdidd

07-20-2007, 02:06 PM

Who has the straight jacket?

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 02:08 PM

Okay, either you guys are still too slow or the lurkers are staying out of this thread, so though you don't deserve it since you've all shown no evidence of understanding it, I'll move onto the next stage, beyond the basics. (Sklansky pays me to make him look like a nice guy.)

Please, tell your smarter pokerbuddies to view this thread, and they can start their own threads on the same topic, only worded so you can understand it.

I ignored the Bayesian aspects of these ideas, let's examine the tipping methodology:

When you tell a dealer you're going to tip them in an alternative manner, you don't have to ultimately do so in order to get their attention to perform better over sustained periods of time. This is similar to the optimal lottery strategy that I promulgated in the Sklansky Special forum before--you TELL friends and loved ones that you chose a specific set of numbers, and that you love them and will share with them half of your winnings if you win.

You get many benefits without having to buy any lottery tickets, good feelings all-round and goodwill. If they win before you do, hope for a payoff. It is clearly positive EV, even if you win and don't give anything to anyone else!

Similar things happen re tips to dealers, your reward reliability doesn't have to be zero, but it doesn't need to be anywhere near 100% to be extremely effective.

Let's take the $30B in annual tips worldwide to illustrate.
(Yes, in the next 30 years, the $30B annual figure will seem small in many scenarios.)

Currently, I cannot envision a worse manner of disbursing these tips then what we do now. How much would we have to disburse efficiently to get the same effect or benefit?

As I stated earlier, practically nothing.

If we stopped tipping overnight, the service would be practically the same, after some volatility.

How much would we have to tip efficiently on average to get service 10-100 times better than what we see today?

Well, look at it this way.

If we offered $55M annually world wide in ten prizes ($10M, $9M, etc.) and spent $5M to process... accept nominations, audits, judging, interviewing etc.; that would be what fraction of $30B? 1/5000th? (I'm no good at arithmetic)

If the metrics applied to consistent performance including tapes of all contenders throughout the calendar year, and a nominal fee to enter the competition, say $50-100 to discourage mediocre dealers from wasting the time of the evaluators; would you get a worthwhile increase in dealer performance worth 1/5000th of the cost?

If we culturally enshrined praise and status to the best dealers, which costs very little, and improves their work environment immeasurably, would we get substantial payoff?

We could even install some random $1M prizes to encourage the cynical dealers to perk up.

So you could get a better environment if you 'tipped' 1/5000th of a dollar effectively instead of what you do now.

What's 1/5000th of a dollar? Lol.

Play with the numbers, and imagine the outcomes, to realize what I'm getting at.

Also, to make the B&M casinos relax a bit, you could invent a way to get them to entice dealers to receive zero wages but have them work 1 week out of 52 and still be happier.

*(hint, more people would deal, for fewer hours, yes, I'm exaggerating, but follow the function's direction with milder numbers)

I don't really care if you don't undersatnd me, get someone smarter who does, let them explain it to you, i don't get paid enough, and i certainly don't get appreciated enough, and you're welcome for having me save you all $1 Trillion over the next 30 years.

(P.S. poker for cash won't last that long, but that's another post, and I don't start threads for fear of those [censored] asterisks from imbecile moderators.

I can't spel. grammer no good, live with it.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 02:10 PM

btw, it appears that one of the pigeons didn't make it, so how do I cook it, and waht about parasites?

i can't spel, mommy.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 02:22 PM

In fewer than twenty years, poker will not be played for big money because too many ways of cheating will exist.

It will hopefully evolve into a cultural artifact, and return to the kitchen table played for nominal stakes among trusted family members for amusement.

The mathematics of poker will manifest itself in virtual games in far richer environments, imagine a game of chicken in a "Matrix"-like virtual setting. Instead of cards, we jump off buildings, with informational cues and bluffs, etc.

It may take some forms that are ceremonial, for instance within the context of some diplomatic intercourse.

Gene Roddenberry had some original ideas--I hope we survive long enough.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 02:29 PM

Deposit now! $600 bonus. 100%!

The loss leader of crack-cocaine poker.

timotheeeee

07-20-2007, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My arrangement with WSEX.com (or any other similar site) will make me NO MONEY

[/ QUOTE ]

If WSEX.com knew how you behaved while promoting their site, they might actually pay you to shut up. If they have "arrangements" with people babbling like you are, I'll definitely never be playing there.

timotheeeee

07-20-2007, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Let's see. $30B US to the best dealer in the world annually.

...And the Nominations are:

Angelina Jolie, topless;

Gisele B., topless;

Jerry Seinfeld, topless;

Catherine Zeta-Jones, topless;

Miss Universe, topless;

Nicole Kidman, topless;

Rosie O'Donnell, bagged;

...

do you get it now?

is it simple enough for you now?

do you know how long the application line-up would be to work as a dealer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, you've also just found the answer to crappy McDonalds employees.

(and I deal cards, btw)

timotheeeee

07-20-2007, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're a nutter

[/ QUOTE ]

for your information, Pokerstars, FullTilt, Pokerstars, and four other networks are each paying me $100K per week to 'discredit' these ideas, so you'll never benefit from them. They tell me it's chump change.

So, thank you for your support. ... and keep disbelieving, do tell your friends about this silly thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, are you in breach of contract with these sites? You're getting paid $700K/week total, yet nothing from "wsex.com," yet you're still babbling? You must really think we are [censored] idiots.

wet work

07-20-2007, 02:53 PM

Wow. Seek help. Seriously.

timotheeeee

07-20-2007, 02:59 PM

Also, getting into arguments on the internet about who is smarter is the second most maoaoironic thing someone can do. The most maooaaorionic thing is a heated debate about who is smarter against absolutely no one, which is what you're doing.

timotheeeee

07-20-2007, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Seek help. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who needs help when you make $36,000,000/year "discrediting ideas"?

DVaut1

07-20-2007, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
AGAIN, THANKS FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

WE WILL NEVER ASK FOR YOUR BOBBLEHEAD AGAIN... LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked for the dubloon instead:

http://www.pokerstars.com/fpp/store/images/detailed/moneymaker-coin.jpg

I bought 50 and will take them to the local B&M to tip my dealer with instead of real money.

So I am now doing my part in the revolution.

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're a nutter

[/ QUOTE ]

for your information, Pokerstars, FullTilt, Pokerstars, and four other networks are each paying me $100K per week to 'discredit' these ideas, so you'll never benefit from them. They tell me it's chump change.

So, thank you for your support. ... and keep disbelieving, do tell your friends about this silly thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, are you in breach of contract with these sites? You're getting paid $700K/week total, yet nothing from "wsex.com," yet you're still babbling? You must really think we are [censored] idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If WSEX.com knew how you behaved while promoting their site, they might actually pay you to shut up. If they have "arrangements" with people babbling like you are, I'll definitely never be playing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of these quotes, doesn't belong, one of these quotes, contradicts the other, which one of these quotes, doesn't belong?

Get it now? OPTION: Who said I'm not getting paid by wsex?

Oh, you'll never play there? Did I earn my money?

Yes.

I don't need money, I donate it all.
I want your money to donate it to good causes, fix this world up.

There was no argument about 'smarter' read over the posts.

Here's a high IQ test question to keep you guys amused (and to get the smarter guys to read this thread):

You are in a room, well-lit, holding a rolled up newspaper in your hand. A live, common house fly is bothering you
so you want to kill it. What technique will increase your effectiveness by a magnitude of 5 to 100 times to accomplish this task? Hint: What answer will, upon reflection, be sure to seem so good, so correct, that you are delighted to have learned the answer?

If you can answer this in less than a day, your I.Q. is over 210 19 times out of 20. Ha ha ha ha, with a standard deviation of 30, ha ha ha ho ho ho ho he heh heheheee

Mommy... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

seemorenuts

07-20-2007, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AGAIN, THANKS FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

WE WILL NEVER ASK FOR YOUR BOBBLEHEAD AGAIN... LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked for the dubloon instead:

http://www.pokerstars.com/fpp/store/images/detailed/moneymaker-coin.jpg

I bought 50 and will take them to the local B&M to tip my dealer with instead of real money.

So I am now doing my part in the revolution.

[/ QUOTE ]

ARMY OF TWO!

TIP ONE OF THOSE EVERY MONTH, YOU DON'T WANT TO SPOIL THEM.

entertainme

07-20-2007, 03:47 PM

Obviously this thread was completely hijacked.

Mr. seemorenuts will be unable to join us for a while, so if anyone wants to continue on topic, please feel free.

robracing

07-21-2007, 02:26 AM

The men in white coats arrived just in time for the weekend!

This thread, above all, has proved to me the value of pre-judging 2+2 posters by the number of stars they possess.

timotheeeee

07-21-2007, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Who said I'm not getting paid by wsex?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My arrangement with WSEX.com (or any other similar site) will make me NO MONEY

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So you see, I gain nothing from this

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose geniuses make mistakes like this all the time. I apologize. I knew there was a reason you made $36,000,000 per year to make sure that people playing at pokerstars don't defect to wsex.com.

Let's break it down...

Either:

1) You are one of the richest people in America by ensuring that unknown poker sites don't get extra players, or

2) You get paid nothing by unknown sites to attract more players from the big sites.

3) You get paid something by unknown sites to attract more players from the big sites.

I'd appreciate one of your "simplifications," preferably without unnecessary analogies having nothing to do with anything.

timotheeeee

07-21-2007, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who said I'm not getting paid by wsex?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My arrangement with WSEX.com (or any other similar site) will make me NO MONEY

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So you see, I gain nothing from this

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose geniuses make mistakes like this all the time. I apologize. I knew there was a reason you made $36,000,000 per year to make sure that people playing at pokerstars don't defect to wsex.com.

Let's break it down...

Either:

1) You are one of the richest people in America by ensuring that unknown poker sites don't get extra players, or

2) You get paid nothing by unknown sites to attract more players from the big sites.

3) You get paid something by unknown sites to attract more players from the big sites.

I'd appreciate one of your "simplifications," preferably without unnecessary analogies having nothing to do with anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot

4) I'm a [censored] moron for returning to this thread and responding.

Mod, please ban me for a day for being stupid.

seemorenuts

08-02-2007, 04:37 PM

You forgot to challenge my claim to have traveled through time.

Also, it's strait jacket, not straight jacket.

Lastly,

monday
tuesday
wednesday
thursday
friday
saturday
someday

I was banned without a correct reason, viz.

I was not spamming about wsex, I had to mention it in a reply to some maoraian who didn't understand something, that's not spam. Idiot moderators. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

seemorenuts

08-02-2007, 04:46 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=10693641&an=&page=&vc=1

The harmless post above is how I earned 3 asterisks at once.

They then locked up this thread, which actually is pertinent to playing poker well, viz. the concept of condensing language so as to express the necessary concepts required to make decisions well in real time at the poker table.

That makes the mods morons. You'll see in 50 years.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...ue#Post10696474 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=exchange&Number=10696 474&Searchpage=2&Main=10696474&Words=seemorenuts&t opic=&Search=true#Post10696474)

Remember, I'm smarter than you are. I have proof.

Therefore, you should listen to me very carefully and learn. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Dangeresque

08-02-2007, 08:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to repeat this, but I don't get any feedback on why it isn't a good set of ideas:

...

2. collective power amongst poker players can do several amazing and positive things if channeled logically. For instance, the concept of tipping in a more centralized manner (again with free choice for all) where players opt out of the usual routine (wear a button and tell your dealer) and contribute to an annual (or any periodic) award, however imperfectly constructed, to the best dealers in the world. We are talking about tips that must exceed $100M to $200M annually, so why not disburse these through fairly audited and judged merit based metrics? The joke being that an annual $100M winner-take-all (just one variant) prize would facilitate a quantum leap in dealing quality and you'd get brain surgeons vying for that prize, hence a better pool of talent for new dealers. Meanwhile, casinos would have to pick up the slack and pay decent wages etc. during the quick transition. Imagine any dealer paying attention so carefully all year to keep the lowest error rate possible and to be fair to all players, and whatever else it takes to excel, etc. The best deserve to be rewarded, (it's the American way, lol) the general manner with which most of us are ROUTINELY tipping today UTTERLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FAILS TO ACHIEVE MUCH OF ITS PURPOSE AND POTENTIAL.

It's not the specificity of the ideas I'm pushing that matters, but the lost opportunities of MANY well-considered methods of improving the QUALITY AND VALUE OF EXPERIENCE FOR ALL POKER PLAYERS THAT IS VERY PUZZLING TO ME.

The reason it doesn't happen is only because unorganized players play for various other reasons, entertainment, compulsion, and action.

So step up, somebody. Please. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the problem with that idea. The first mistake a dealer makes or series thereof, is the last hand he puts that effort into. Infact, at minimum wage. He's effectively fired. He goes and finds another job.

Economists understand that people think at the margin, over both the long and short run. And the best way to get repeatable response to incentives is to make them incremental This is a horrible idea and will kill dealing as a career, and I know career dealers who love it, who are good at it, who earn $32K in a really good year, and who couldn't keep doing it for $7/hr.

Your idea will give you a dozen fantastic dealers, the current system will give us a million good dealers, and a much smaller, rotating group, of mediocre/bad dealers who wash out.