What did Yang have when Childs folded QQ? [Archive]

fnurt

07-18-2007, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
omg fnurt.
i love your random returns to the forums (have you been back and i missed it).

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No, not at all. But hey, it's WSOP time, which piqued my interest, so I dropped by the forums. I actually didn't even realize the WSOP was going on until I noticed a story on ESPN.com (we have a new baby, so sue me for being out of the loop...).

Funny story actually. I was watching the video feed last night and I kinda got the itch to play a tournament, which I haven't done in a long time (since Party shut down, maybe). So I log onto Stars, but guess what, I have like 28 bucks in my account and of course, it's a huge pain to get money in there any more.

So I start playing a couple $10 SNGs just to use up the money. I finish 1st in a 27-player and like 6th in a 180-player, and now I have like $200. Maybe I'll parlay it into a million zillion bucks, or next year's WSOP title or something. Anyway, good to see a familiar face!

dspholladay

07-18-2007, 04:09 PM

I think if Yang didn't have trip 7s then he was beat. No way did he have KK or AA. He admitted in the interview with Norman Chad that he bluffed A LOT and in some big spots.

El Diablo

07-18-2007, 04:17 PM

All,

My prediction is Childs will cry when he sees the hand.

Austiger

07-18-2007, 04:23 PM

I agree with El D and Technologic. I am curious how much Childs played with Yang in the days leading up to the FT. Once you saw how much Yang overvalued hands and how much he reraised, I don't think you could ever fold that.

Zinzan

07-18-2007, 04:39 PM

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I agree with El D and Technologic. I am curious how much Childs played with Yang in the days leading up to the FT. Once you saw how much Yang overvalued hands and how much he reraised, I don't think you could ever fold that.

[/ QUOTE ]

From that hand onwards, he ran over the table more or less. At first review (didn't watch PPV) of hand histories, it sounds like he managed to take marginal chances that he could afford while still captaining the table, much like Jamie Gold last year.

He obviously played well leading up to the final table, but I didn't follow his path... did he play very much like this the whole way through?

-Z

chicken10der

07-18-2007, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think Yang had QQ beat

[/ QUOTE ]

agree. his AI raise was instantaneous, and from the rest of the ft, he definitely did not come off as the kind of player that would act that quickly with anything that QQ beat.

southgapoker

07-18-2007, 05:09 PM

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i say when all's said and done, that fold will haunt childs for the rest of his life

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southgapoker

07-18-2007, 05:10 PM

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I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like A5 clubs or some other hand that would be pretty much a coinflip.

I don't think I fold there, but all credit to Yang. Putting other people to tough decisions is a huge part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this should have been a tough decision.

AngusThermopyle

07-18-2007, 05:12 PM

Before Hand #1:

Raymond Rahme - 16.32 million
Alex Kravchenko - 6.57 million
Lee Childs - 13.24 million
Jerry Yang - 8.45 million
Lee Watkinson - 9.925 million
Tuan Lam - 21.315 million
Philip Hilm - 22.07 million
Jon Kalmar - 20.32 million
Hevad 'Rain' Khan - 9.205 million

QQ hand was #11. Puts
Jerry Yang ~ 20 million

After winning a big pot in hand #14,
Jerry Yang ~ 25 million

After Hand #15 (Hilm knocked out)

Raymond Rahme - 16.28 million
Alex Kravchenko - 4.89 million
Lee Childs - 6.69 million
Jerry Yang - 44.88 million
Lee Watkinson - 9.295 million
Tuan Lam - 20.775 million
Jon Kalmar - 17.51 million
Hevad 'Rain' Khan - 7.095 million

After Hand #21 (Watkinson knocked out)

Raymond Rahme - 15.74 million
Alex Kravchenko - 4.95 million
Lee Childs - 6.15 million
Jerry Yang - 55.015 million
Tuan Lam - 20.595 million
Jon Kalmar - 17.21 million
Hevad 'Rain' Khan - 7.755 million

skiier04

07-18-2007, 05:22 PM

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I don't think Yang had QQ beat

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MyTurn2Raise

07-18-2007, 05:22 PM

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I agree with El D and Technologic. I am curious how much Childs played with Yang in the days leading up to the FT. Once you saw how much Yang overvalued hands and how much he reraised, I don't think you could ever fold that.

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IIRC, Yang didn't play like that at all in getting to the final table. The rep on him was weak-tight. I could be wrong.

grando

07-18-2007, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with El D and Technologic. I am curious how much Childs played with Yang in the days leading up to the FT. Once you saw how much Yang overvalued hands and how much he reraised, I don't think you could ever fold that.

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IIRC, Yang didn't play like that at all in getting to the final table. The rep on him was weak-tight. I could be wrong.

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no you're completely right

other than being a little aggressive, yang hadn't gotten out of line whatsoever during the hands prior

in the wsop thread, the consensus seemed that it was a good fold

s33w33d

07-18-2007, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with El D and Technologic. I am curious how much Childs played with Yang in the days leading up to the FT. Once you saw how much Yang overvalued hands and how much he reraised, I don't think you could ever fold that.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, Yang didn't play like that at all in getting to the final table. The rep on him was weak-tight. I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

no you're completely right

other than being a little aggressive, yang hadn't gotten out of line whatsoever during the hands prior

in the wsop thread, the consensus seemed that it was a good fold

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Which begs the question, either the deck totally clobbered him early on, or he decided to go totally apeshit and start crushing people. The former is much easier to believe in the latter, which means he could have QQ crushed.

He could also have JJ or TT and believed he was far ahead.

ericicecream

07-18-2007, 05:51 PM

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For the record, I think he had AcKc.

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stan1541

07-18-2007, 05:55 PM

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For the record, I think he had AcKc.

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Ditto

Whitewash

07-18-2007, 06:00 PM

That was a weird insta-AI from Yang considering he was very deliberate with his decisions every other hand.

sweetjazz

07-18-2007, 06:39 PM

The way he played this hand seemed more consistent with the way he played A3s and 44 as described in his interview -- I'm going to put all my chips in no matter what and please God let it work out for me. I really doubt he had QQ beat and I don't think he necessarily had to have a flush draw there either.

Of course some of this is hindsight bias, but given that he came out with a kamikaze approach in the first orbit, I think you have to get it in there with QQ. There's just too good of a chance he has a worse hand that he thinks is good + he's making a pure bluff + it's just not that easy to pick up AA/KK. The hand is way different if Childs get reraised by Watkinson UTG+2 instead of Yang; then I can easily see not committing my stack with QQ on a 742 flop.

betgo

07-18-2007, 06:53 PM

I think Childs was probably ahead. There is a good chance Yang had KK/AA, but he could have AK, a mid pp, or some junk.

I don't think Yang had 22-88, as he would probably call and play for a set against the UTG raiser. If he was making a play, he probably had something like a suited connector/gapper, Axs, Ks or broadway cards.

Yang could have had a read Childs was weak/tight from playing him the previous day and was making a play with any 2 cards. If so, it will become one of the most famous hands ever, and Yang's reputation as a player will be enhanced.

PokerFink

07-18-2007, 07:00 PM

I'm with ElD and Doug. No idea what Yang had, but I really, really doubt it beat QQ.

That fold (and the 8 Yang spiked) will haunt Childs for the rest of his life. Which really sucks.

gvegas

07-18-2007, 07:04 PM

"its just not that easy to pick up AA/KK"

actually at a nine handed table, one of your opponents will have AA or KK around 8% of the time. Not exactly like getting struck by lightning.

betgo

07-18-2007, 07:06 PM

heffmike

07-18-2007, 07:12 PM

first timer - if you want to believe this interview with Norman Chad - no reason to lie,
reraise an UTG raiser with 44. Geez. God is great, I guess...

http://blogs.tampabay.com/poker/2007/07/lee-childs-on-f.html#comment-76364328

[ QUOTE ]

Hey Lee,

Great lay down!! If you listen to Jerry's interview with Norman Chad he said he was in a hand where he had 4-4 and he prayed to the lord for a set, and the lord gave it to him. He also said that "the guy" had QQ, so I'm assuming that he was talking about that hand, since there was a 4 on the flop.

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EDIT: haven't listened to the interview myself yet. anyone out there DVR it and confirm he's talking about this hand and not some other random hand?

technologic

07-18-2007, 07:20 PM

i think once you commit that much of your stack in the pot on that board, you have to call there. too much of a chance he could be bluffing/overvaluing a worse hand.

i don't know much about yang's image prior, or if childs had a lot of history with him, but IIRC yang had gotten a bit feisty the orbit before the QQ hand.

if you play the hand preflop, why are you calling the raise OOP? what's the point in a lead if you're going to fold to an all in? although i wouldn't be too surprised to see AA/KK, i feel that this is a part of his MUCH larger range.

Eder

07-18-2007, 07:23 PM

Childs made the worst fold ever...cant wait to see the hand...hope he was on a draw

tpir

07-18-2007, 07:30 PM

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All,

My prediction is Childs will cry when he sees the hand.

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Assuming ESPN shows it. I remember back in 2004 waiting for them to show an enormous pot between Raymer and Arieh that was talked about in the reports.... and then they didn't show it. hyahcyahcyah.

betgo

07-18-2007, 07:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All,

My prediction is Childs will cry when he sees the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming ESPN shows it. I remember back in 2004 waiting for them to show an enormous pot between Raymer and Arieh that was talked about in the reports.... and then they didn't show it. hyahcyahcyah.

[/ QUOTE ]
They have to show this hand.

The Raymer year, there was a weak/tight player at the final table who Arieh kept reraising and he kept folding. They never showed what either had, since the hands were folded preflop.

betgo

07-18-2007, 07:47 PM

I don't know about much larger range. Someone has JJ+, AK of 8 players about 20% of the time. As aggressive as Yang was playing, I think it is very likely he had JJ+, AK, reraising an UTG raiser in 2nd position.

GMan42

07-18-2007, 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All,

My prediction is Childs will cry when he sees the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming ESPN shows it. I remember back in 2004 waiting for them to show an enormous pot between Raymer and Arieh that was talked about in the reports.... and then they didn't show it. hyahcyahcyah.

[/ QUOTE ]

They'll definitely show it, just because of the sparsity (sp?) of hands that were played before Hilm/Watkinson/Childs busted. Hell, watching it on PPV, those eliminations came so quick it felt like it was already the edited ESPN version.

MLG

07-18-2007, 08:32 PM

fnurt,
congrats (on the baby obv not the $10 SnG)!!!!

Botchman

07-18-2007, 08:36 PM

What do you guys think about Childs showing the QQ??? I think that it was a HUGE, HUGE MISTAKE and prolly lead Yang to believe he could bluff the hell outta them

betgo

07-18-2007, 09:02 PM

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What do you guys think about Childs showing the QQ??? I think that it was a HUGE, HUGE MISTAKE and prolly lead Yang to believe he could bluff the hell outta them

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't like anything about how Childs played this, except the preflop call was OK with the intention of checkraising allin most flops.

The was absolutely terrible and maybe the worst part of how he played it.

shmergle

07-18-2007, 09:07 PM

According to the quote below, the hand with 44 vs. QQ was back on day two. The hand vs. Childs was the ninth of the final day. Yang had won four of the first eight without ever showing down. Hmm.

http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=167443

Yang mentioned two specific miracle saves during his amazing Main Event run. Down to just $3,600 chips on Day Two, Yang survived a desperate all-in call, hitting a runner-runner straight with his dominated A-4. Later that day, he faced a pair of Queens with a meager 4-4 holding, only to pray for a set and watch as the four appeared.

SonofDjugashvili

07-18-2007, 09:18 PM

On the Russian poker forum - Yang said he had JJ. For what it's worth.

Jasper109

07-18-2007, 09:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the Russian poker forum - Yang said he had JJ. For what it's worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't matter. God would have made sure a J flopped.

Howard Treesong

07-18-2007, 10:08 PM

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Childs made the worst fold ever...cant wait to see the hand...hope he was on a draw

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No way is this the worst fold ever. I think Childs may have had Yang beat (I thought Yang probably had JJ) but I think Childs rightly thought he could find a better spot against Yang. Yang did a good job of putting Childs in a tough spot on this hand -- and even if the fold was wrong, it wasn't waaaaay wrong, as you suggest.

LennartZ

07-18-2007, 10:20 PM

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i say when all's said and done, that fold will haunt childs for the rest of his life untill he sees the ESPN Broadcast

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southgapoker

07-18-2007, 10:48 PM

Seriously? Find a better spot? Better than say 90% to win?

The Phil Hellmuth "OMG WE CANT GET IT AI WITH ONE PAIR POSTFLOP" line of thinking here is awful.

heffmike

07-18-2007, 10:52 PM

hmm, I thought 44 was suspect. linky to the posting?

nath

07-18-2007, 11:29 PM

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Childs made the worst fold ever...cant wait to see the hand...hope he was on a draw

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No way is this the worst fold ever. I think Childs may have had Yang beat (I thought Yang probably had JJ) but I think Childs rightly thought he could find a better spot against Yang. Yang did a good job of putting Childs in a tough spot on this hand -- and even if the fold was wrong, it wasn't waaaaay wrong, as you suggest.

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The problem is that Childs was largely put in a tough spot because of his flop lead.

sweetjazz

07-18-2007, 11:29 PM

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"its just not that easy to pick up AA/KK"

actually at a nine handed table, one of your opponents will have AA or KK around 8% of the time. Not exactly like getting struck by lightning.

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Did you read the rest of my post where I said it's different if, say, Lee Watkinson raises your UTG raise than if the guy who played half of his hands in the first orbit raises you. Yes an aggressive player sometimes picks up AA or KK, but more often he has a worse hand.

The quick action by Yang indicates to me that he was plannign to go all-in the whole way. Could it be because he had AA? Yes, but that's a somewhat strange way of playing the hand, because you would like to at least create the impression of having a decision to make. On the other hand, if you think you are ordained by God to win the WSOP then you can go all-in and pray that your opponent folds or calls and you hit what you need on the turn and river (even if it is a runner-runner draw).

It is not a great spot for Childs, but bet/folding the flop was just an awful line. On that flop he has to just check/raise all-in and hope for the best. No doubt some of the time Yang will show up with AA or KK (or even a flopped set), but most of the time the queens will be ahead. Of course, Yang would have called his A3 or what have you and started praying to God for an ace or wheel.

GotQuads

07-18-2007, 11:37 PM

OOP it's probably better to push or fold QQ to the reraise.

SuperUberBob

07-18-2007, 11:39 PM

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For the record, I think he had AcKc.

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yimyammer

07-19-2007, 01:21 AM

I know it became apparent that Jerry was playing very aggressive as the tourney played out, but this spot seems pretty different from the aggression displayed elsewhere.

He is raising an under the gun raiser at a full table in the first hand with the entire table left to act. If that's not a strong hand, then he has balls of steel.

If he has anything other than AcKc, AA, KK , QQ or JJ, I'll be stunned.

My gut tells me JJ or AcKc, can't wait to find out.

Clayton

07-19-2007, 01:22 AM

i love players like childs, i would have jammed atc in yangs spot so childs could appropriately see "where he as at"

dsteff

07-19-2007, 02:01 AM

I might have missed a hand or two but from what I saw every single time a player lead into Yang at the final table Yang raised. Yang's range on this hand was any two cards imo.

llleisure

07-19-2007, 02:51 AM

Fairly sure he had a set of 4s.

I just watched that hand again and based on his speech at the end of the whole deal he mntioned a hand where he had 4s. He says something to the effect of someone had queens and he flopped a set of 4s. He didn't say it was that hand but there was a 4 on the flop on that hand and Childs showed (and folded) his queens. I'm saying 80% thats the hand he mentioned at the end.

yad

07-19-2007, 03:17 AM

no way we can say what yang had with any confidence until the espn broadcast.

the interesting question in this hand is why on earth childs leads if he is intending to fold to a raise. i can see bet/call or c/r or c/c but bet/fold just seems god-awful in this spot except against a really weak predictable player, which yang clearly was not.

betgo

07-19-2007, 03:29 AM

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no way we can say what yang had with any confidence until the espn broadcast.

the interesting question in this hand is why on earth childs leads if he is intending to fold to a raise. i can see bet/call or c/r or c/c but bet/fold just seems god-awful in this spot except against a really weak predictable player, which yang clearly was not.

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I guess Childs thought Yang would fold if behind to the lead.

Folding preflop or check/folding the flop face down would have been much better than bet/folding a showing.

PokerFink

07-19-2007, 03:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming ESPN shows it. I remember back in 2004 waiting for them to show an enormous pot between Raymer and Arieh that was talked about in the reports.... and then they didn't show it. hyahcyahcyah.

[/ QUOTE ]

The one where Arieh apparently got up from the table, walked around, looked at the money, shook his head, went back to the table and folded?

Yeah, I was extremely dissapointed they didn't show that on ESPN.

Also, just for fun...

LCposter

07-19-2007, 04:30 AM

Looking at the hand from Yang's point-of-view, why is it so obvious that Childs is weak? He's leading into the preflop aggressor, and it's not a tiny bet (a 60% pot lead OOP into the PFR doesn't seem weak to me at least). If the bet size seems too small, would 3.5-4M be better? In any case, I think Yang would put Childs on at least TT+/set/big draw (maybe 66/77/88 lead out like this too, but personally I think Childs is checking anything under 99).

Against that range, is Yang really going to put his own tourney life on the line with any two? Even if he pegs Childs as weak/tight, he knows only TT/JJ and maybe QQ can fold. I think a raise here represents JJ+ or a big draw most of the time and trash a small percentage of time.

In order to analyze the flop lead, we have to think about how Childs would play a monster. If he had AA or a set, is he more likely to get all of Yang's chips in on the flop with a 2/3-pot lead or a CRAI? I would argue the former, espcially since everyone here thinks Yang is agressive enough to raise practically any two. If Yang just has overcards, he's more likely to fold to a CRAI and/or check behind the flop.

Given that Childs played QQ the same way he could play AA or a set, it can't be that bad. Also, if Childs checks, Yang checks behind, and the turn comes A, K, or club (up to 19 possible scare cards) he's just given Yang the best hand or a golden opportunity to bluff and steal the pot.

Calling the flop lead dumb because we saw Yang raise all-in seems results oriented to me.

Ckrad

07-19-2007, 05:07 AM

Id say yang has TT-JJ.

PokerFink

07-19-2007, 06:31 AM

LCPoster,

Except people lead crap flops like that all the time, because it forces the other player to either fold or raise all of their chips. So you can lead and risk a 60% pot bet to win the pot, while the other player must risk all their chips to win the pot.

With air, that's a good play. With QQ... not so much.

beaver

07-19-2007, 06:32 AM

I think Yang had JJ.

I swear after Childs showed the queens, Yang said "bad laydown"

dj_mercury

07-19-2007, 07:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think Yang had JJ.

I swear after Childs showed the queens, Yang said "bad laydown"

[/ QUOTE ]
wasn't Yang hitting the table after the laydown of Childs? I know you want to give false informations around, but I doubt he was acting like that and saying at the same time bad laydown, unless that action was directed to himself.

dspholladay

07-19-2007, 09:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think Yang had JJ.

I swear after Childs showed the queens, Yang said "bad laydown"

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I could've sworn he said good laydown. Still standing by my statement that Yang didn't have Childs beat though. However, say Yang was on a total bluff - why not show it when Childs flips his ladies just so the table knows he's capable of a big bluff? I know most people aren't advocates of giving away free information, but sometimes it could help. I'm torn but I'm gonna say Yang had a lower pp...

traz

07-19-2007, 10:12 AM

yang had a set

s33w33d

07-19-2007, 10:24 AM

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The problem is that Childs was largely put in a tough spot because of his flop lead.

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What do you suggest instead, Nath?

gumpzilla

07-19-2007, 10:28 AM

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The problem is that Childs was largely put in a tough spot because of his flop lead.

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What do you suggest instead, Nath?

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I think he should have repopped it preflop. I don't remember the situation perfectly; I think stacks were probably a bit deep for a straight shove, but I think some kind of raise was in order. I'm pretty sure I thought this at the time; after the rest of Yang's play, I'm near certain of it now, so I can't tell how much is colored by future results.

Shibby

07-19-2007, 10:41 AM

I just want to be on the record saying I think he had a set of fours.

jogsxyz

07-19-2007, 10:48 AM

The pot was $18.5M to $19M. Childs had $7M to $7.5M. Getting
about 5 to 2 for his money. For Childs to fold he better be
damn sure Yang had a set, aces, or kings.

wtfmates

07-19-2007, 10:50 AM

cant wait to see the hole cards

AngusThermopyle

07-19-2007, 11:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The pot was $18.5M to $19M. Childs had $7M to $7.5M. Getting
about 5 to 2 for his money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot: $20.14M
Childs: $7.74M

2.6 to 1

betgo

07-19-2007, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yang had a set

[/ QUOTE ]
Unlikely. No one reraises a small pp here against an UTG raiser when you can call with position and try to flop a set. Also, Yang may flat call with a set.

Popped Rod

07-19-2007, 11:29 AM

Seven-deuce or Four-deuce soooted. Hit two pair on flop.

TexRef

07-19-2007, 11:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fairly sure he had a set of 4s.

I just watched that hand again and based on his speech at the end of the whole deal he mntioned a hand where he had 4s. He says something to the effect of someone had queens and he flopped a set of 4s. He didn't say it was that hand but there was a 4 on the flop on that hand and Childs showed (and folded) his queens. I'm saying 80% thats the hand he mentioned at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
This was a hand from earlier in the tournament - not a final table hand. Norman asked him a question about the final table, but he started talking about two hands that he had played earlier in the tournament - it was evident because he said that he was talking about the number of chips he had at the time and it was only 38K or so.

I definitely do not think that Yang had QQ beat in that spot. The flop was 7-high and he could have definitely been being very aggressive with 99-JJ there. He was playing uber-aggressive the entire night and it worked really well for him. Will be interesting to see the hole cards!

RichGangi

07-19-2007, 11:56 AM

IDK, but Id bet the queens were good.

Brooks54

07-19-2007, 12:23 PM

I think he had JJ...

J.C. Gloves

08-08-2007, 10:27 AM

CONFIRMED!!! Jerry Yang had pocket jacks this hand.
I heard it from the man himself in his interview w/ Phil Gordon on the ESPN Podcast.

Continue w/ the sickness of this... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bdidd

08-08-2007, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
CONFIRMED!!! Jerry Yang had pocket jacks this hand.
I heard it from the man himself in his interview w/ Phil Gordon on the ESPN Podcast.

Continue w/ the sickness of this... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Irony. just as I'm reading this post for the first time I was listening to the Poker Edge where Yang was discussing this.

DesertCat

08-08-2007, 01:21 PM

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i say when all's said and done, that fold will haunt childs for the rest of his life

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhere Childs is retching in a toilet.

technologic

08-09-2007, 12:21 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
i say when all's said and done, that fold will haunt childs for the rest of his life

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhere Childs is retching in a toilet.

[/ QUOTE ]

now if only my stox picking skillz were as dead on

Tony Tone

08-09-2007, 01:40 AM

I couldnt believe he didnt get his chips in with QQ in that spot it made no sense at all to me.

jhans24

08-09-2007, 12:05 PM

It doesn't seem that unreasonable of a fold based on the previous days' play. Everyone was surprised at how Yang did a complete reversal and turned super aggresive at the final table. If this was one of the first couple hands of the final table he would still have his super tight image.

DrewDevil

08-09-2007, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i say when all's said and done, that fold will haunt childs for the rest of his life

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhere Childs is hanging from a drainpipe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eaglesfan1

08-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Is anybody taking bets on this? This must be done.

jogsxyz

08-09-2007, 06:51 PM

On an EPSN podcast with Phil Gordon Jerry Yang said he had jacks. Only Yang didn't remember the action correctly.
Can we trust his memory on his hand.

EWS87

08-26-2007, 02:22 PM

Yang also says in Bluff Magazine this month that he had Jacks...Lee is gonna kill himself when it hits airways

jogsxyz

08-26-2007, 02:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yang also says in Bluff Magazine this month that he had Jacks...Lee is gonna kill himself when it hits airways

[/ QUOTE ]

Not just Childs. Childs calls. Yang bust out 8th. There
six other guys on the table who will be very unhappy.

Phntm

08-26-2007, 04:24 PM

I said it then, I will say it again, worst fold ever.

timhardawyhatesu

08-26-2007, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I said it then, I will say it again, worst fold ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes except when wasica folded the folded 78s in last years me. I HATED that fold so much.

betgo

08-26-2007, 06:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yang also says in Bluff Magazine this month that he had Jacks...Lee is gonna kill himself when it hits airways

[/ QUOTE ]

Not just Childs. Childs calls. Yang bust out 8th. There
six other guys on the table who will be very unhappy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did Childs have Yang covered? Yang had been winning/stealing a lot of pots early and probably had chips.

Also, JJ is about 10% to beat QQ on the flop, so you can't be sure what would happen.

jogsxyz

08-27-2007, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yang also says in Bluff Magazine this month that he had Jacks...Lee is gonna kill himself when it hits airways

[/ QUOTE ]

Not just Childs. Childs calls. Yang bust out 8th. There
six other guys on the table who will be very unhappy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did Childs have Yang covered? Yang had been winning/stealing a lot of pots early and probably had chips.

Also, JJ is about 10% to beat QQ on the flop, so you can't be sure what would happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Childs folded to a 742r flop. QQ was about 91.5% to
win against JJ. You gotta like better than 9 to 1.

The-Donk

08-27-2007, 10:26 AM

Yang had JJ

A_C_Slater

08-27-2007, 11:47 AM

I watched the telecast live on PPV. At the start of that table they stated that Yang had been playing very cautiously and nitty, almost weak-tight from 27 players on down. He did open raise a few hands before this one, but no showdowns he could have just been getting good hands.

In this spot Childs opens UTG and Yang reraises UTG+1. Against a typical opponent in a full ring game this is AA/KK only. Given Childs image of Yang at the time his fold is not bad. If anything his only mistake is bet/folding flop instead of check/folding flop.

I am not sure if he was getting set odds to call preflop, but if not I would have mucked it right there. Of course it turns out Yang used his previous image to his advantage and ran the table over, so give him some credit for that. But AT THE TIME given his image, Childs fold was not as absurd as it seems, if you had watched the telecast.

Phntm

08-27-2007, 11:57 PM

I watched the whole thing, and still think it was an awful fold. I do agree with your assesment of the action and it sounds like a good justification, but I just feel like if queens are good enough to call the re-raise and then lead with, you gotta go with them there. Given what we have learned about yang, and he tendency to overvalue hands, I think QQ is way ahead of his range. I probably just shove preflop after Yang re-raises. Oh well, I think Childs freaks out when he sees this on TV (if he doesn't know already, lol)

DrewDevil

09-01-2007, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I said it then, I will say it again, worst fold ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes except when wasica folded the folded 78s in last years me. I HATED that fold so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

He flopped an open end straigh flush draw, right? I agree, I was dying when he folded that.

westhoff

09-02-2007, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I watched the whole thing, and still think it was an awful fold. I do agree with your assesment of the action and it sounds like a good justification, but I just feel like if queens are good enough to call the re-raise and then lead with, you gotta go with them there. Given what we have learned about yang , and he tendency to overvalue hands, I think QQ is way ahead of his range. I probably just shove preflop after Yang re-raises. Oh well, I think Childs freaks out when he sees this on TV (if he doesn't know already, lol)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, Childs didn't [censored] KNOW HOW WILD Yang was playing yet. After it's over we can say, "Yang was a wild man who had JJ, ldo call with QQ" But at that table in real time his hand looks like AA/KK and will be AA/KK like 80% of the time. Check/folding the flop is obviously best and I agree that after leading you gotta call. But this is not the "worst fold ever". It wasn't even the worst fold at that table.