Poker 101: KQs

[ajmargarine]

Reads: Hero is playing TAG. CO is a clueless shortstack, bought in for $20 and has played about 8/10 hands since he sat down. SB is a nitty tight player. BB loose passive. Table is playing fast and loose.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $87.70
BB: $77.05
Hero (UTG): $50.00
MP: $50.00
CO: $14.85
BTN: $49.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt K/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $2.00</font>, MP folds, CO calls $2.00, BTN folds, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($8) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero...

1. Is this a hand we want to PFR UTG at this table? Discuss.
2. Is this a flop Hero wants to get all-in on? Discuss. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
3. What is the optimal bet size for Hero on the flop?

[shoxbb6]

A raise utg here is fine.

Yes, I want to get it all in on this flop, we have lots of equity even against a flopped straight or set.

I bet $6 on the flop.

[Jzo19]

1.yes
2.yes, even against qj/jt we're a favorite and even if we're behind we have a ton of redraws etc
3.i would bet 5 or 6 .

[Knuckles]

1. I would say yes. CO will throw it in with anything and so will the BB. If they can't lay hands down after the flop I would rather play large pots against them. If the SB is nitty most of the time he will fold, but if he calls we will be able to narrow his range considerably.

2. Yes. This is a flop the hero wants to get all-in. You have flopped a monster. Even if an opponent has two pair here you are still a large favorite over them.

3. The optimal bet size is whatever allows our hero to get all his chips into the pot most of the time. I would bet 6 here because if I get check raised by the SB or BB I would easily be able to get all my chips in while they feel obligated to call.

[Shoe Lace]

1. I think so.
2. Oh yeah.
3. Hard to say.

I think #3 is your biggest concern. The problem is CO. If you bet a normal amount the shortie will probably raise any decent piece of the board.

Unless SB caught a big piece he's going to fold to CO's raise for sure.
BB would love to call your bet with a decent piece but might find a fold to CO's raise.

If you check and CO open shoves then it's no different than above.
If you check and CO checks behind then it's unlikely you're going to win a lot if you make one of your draws.

I think I bet exactly the pot to make CO's shove less scary to SB/BB.

[ajmargarine]

IMHO, there is one perfect precise bet size for Hero to make.

[corsakh]

1) yes
2) yes
3) 6.4, thought he had 20 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[fees]

1. Yes, its a monster, I profitably raise a much wider range from utg at 50
2. Yes, top pair with a striaghtflush redraw is the nuts 100BB deep, 3bet shove if raised
3. Normally you want to push combo draws, but this draw is so powerful that I want a regular cbet, 75% of potsize so 6

[jessyj07]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, there is one perfect precise bet size for Hero to make.

[/ QUOTE ]$6 so that if c/o pushes and somebody calls we can shove?

[Knuckles]

Second try with new logic, fair warning it may be crappy. CO has 12 left behind him. If the SB caught any part of this flop he will be going for a c/r because he has tens or jacks and won't fear if the CO raises. The question is what happens with the BB. If we check and CO bets then the BB may be willing to call here and we can hit him with a crai. The CO will still call so we get his stack, and the pot will be large and hopefully he will call. We don't really fear a checked flop here, because our hand really isn't that vulnerable. Perfect bet size here is a check?

[CPFB]

Our hand has WAY too much equity to check this flop.

CO has 12.85 left in his stack. We want to bet slightly less than that amount. This will allow us to 3-bet AI if he pushes, assuming that the SB comes along.

$6.40 is the perfect bet size here.

[gimmetheloot]

yeah, raise pf, yeah we want AI, bet 6 so when shortie shoves it reopens betting and we can shove on the cold calling donkers.

[Knuckles]

I definitely should have stuck with my original answer it was only off by .40. I knew I was missing something here and it was betting an appropriate amount so we can reopen the betting if the CO pushed.

[Shoe Lace]

[ QUOTE ]
CO has 12.85 left in his stack. We want to bet slightly less than that amount. This will allow us to 3-bet AI if he pushes, assuming that the SB comes along.

$6.40 is the perfect bet size here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this thought process but what happens when SB/BB don't have a hand that warrants calling off 100BBs on the flop?

SB isn't going to dump his stack with a marginal hand on this board. He would need a powerhouse hand.

I'd target out BB. If we bet $8, and CO shoves then it's only a few bucks more for BB to call. If BB is going to call $8 then he's probably going toss in a few extra bucks that CO added.

If BB's hand improves on the turn then he might be willing to play for 100BBs even while drawing pretty much dead.

[55offsuit]

The bet size should be anything higher than 7.4$ IMO.

[JCCARL]

pot the flop

[rjacobs003]

*grunch*
1. I'm fast becoming an advocate of not open limping and I'm not going to fold this so raise is ok with me.
2.lol. I salivate at the idea that someone's going to push this.
3.Hmmm... this is an interesting one. I'd generally advocate a pot-size bet here but you really want action here and you want it from the nitty player since the BB will call down a hit if we've got a read on him and the CO is bonus money in the pot. So I bet maybe $5-$6 trying to represent uncertainty in the hope that he'll come over the top with top pair, etc.....

[NoahSD]

1) yes yes yes yes yes omg yes.
2) I don't even know what that means. Think about lines and ranges and things like that... not whether you want to be all in. If I had to give an answer, it would be no, but whatever... it's a dumb question and nothing interesting will come out of it.
3) $7.

[Spechel EDD]

$6

[mvdgaag]

yes, we are not folding this and betting is far better than limping, since we don't want to invite too many limpers. If there are lots of multiway raised pots I sometimes go for a checkraise to get it headsup (if we get one caller we invite more)

Yes, we have 15 outs to a straight or flush so we are favorite against alomst anything at the flop. Unless we're headsup on the turn we are still in very good shape there. The only hand that I worry about (a tiny little bit) is AK. We'll need to catch our flush and if it's Ah he can catch a runner runner heart to redraw. It is very likely we are not facing AK though, since I would expect a 3bet preflop and even if that would have been the case I'd probably not slow down here.

I bet $5... Enough to commit CO is he calls... inviting more than one call (which is great since we're drawing to a big hand) and if someone reads this as weakness I'm willing to get raised to go allin myself.
If my opponents were observant I'd do what I normally do on such a draw-heavy flop: pot it. I do not want to give away my hand and not get paid off.

[ajmargarine]

IMO Hero should bet $6.40 as mentioned by a few above. We want to bet the maximum possible, yet allowing for the shortie push that the betting may remain open. So that we can push if it comes back around to us.

In the hand, Shortie did push with A4 (heh), one of the blinds called with TT (heh), Hero pushed, got called and spiked the straight on the river ftw.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO Hero should bet $6.40 as mentioned by a few above. We want to bet the maximum possible, yet allowing for the shortie push that the betting may remain open. So that we can push if it comes back around to us.

In the hand, Shortie did push with A4 (heh), one of the blinds called with TT (heh), Hero pushed, got called and spiked the straight on the river ftw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet man, it depends on the house rules and I am not sure what they are on FTP. In some places when a shortie goes allin, 50% over the previous bet contributes to a raise. In some places, it should be at least 100%. So in some rooms you can bet pot /images/graemlins/smile.gif