50NL TPGK on 3flush board do i bet river for value

[Miyogi]

Villian is unknown at this point. Do you raise this river?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $30.35
BB: $50.50
UTG: $21.15
Miyogi (MP): $78.00
CO: $44.75
BTN: $133.00

Preflop: Miyogi is dealt Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="red">Miyogi raises to $2.50</font>, 4 folds, UTG calls $2.00

Flop: ($5.75) Khttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 6http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 4http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif (2 Players)
UTG checks, Miyogi checks

Turn: ($5.75) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Miyogi bets $5.25</font>, UTG calls $5.25

River: ($16.25) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">Miyogi raises to $13.00</font>

[Profish2285]

Well his bet obviously looks like a blocker bet so I would probably raise and with him being so short its hard to not get the money in here especially with your flop check.

[HojoMofo]

raise less if you do raise, your raise folds out the hands you beat and gets a call from the hands you dont imo.

[Miyogi]

Yeah that raise put him AI. You think up to $6 is better?

[Reup Gang]

why did you check flop

[Profish2285]

I was going to say to raise smaller when I saw the size but then I saw his stack size. If you make it $6 I think that means he puts in a total of $17.50 assuming he calls. How is $17.50 that different from $21.15? I honestly dont think the ~$4 difference makes worse fold and better call. If he was going to call a smaller raise with worse, he will put in the rest of his short stack with worse as well. If he was deeper a raise to ~$8 is probably best.

[Reup Gang]

the psychological impact that he sees he has to go all in to call is significant enough where i would bet smaller IMO

[Miyogi]

I was in position and didn't want to have to face a CRAI. Also, knowing that I can fold if another club comes checking here might let villian catch up a little and make 2nd pair which he would stack off with.

[Profish2285]

You honestly think he is putting in 80% of his stack with a worse hand but 100% will get him to realize hes beat?

[Mingdu]

Bet exactly what he has left

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah that raise put him AI. You think up to $6 is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that would be the best idea. Gets more money in the pot if you are best but limits your losses if you do happen to be beat.

[Profish2285]

For everyone who says raise to $6 or so, if you raise to $6 and he pushes, are you folding with those odds?

[HojoMofo]

btw calling is certainly not horrible.

[Check_The_Nuts]

humm I woulda bet flop and pushed turn. I'm not as comfortable pushing the river cuz he can't call you with the naked Ac anymore.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
I was in position and didn't want to have to face a CRAI. Also, knowing that I can fold if another club comes checking here might let villian catch up a little and make 2nd pair which he would stack off with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interseting , I awlays just protect what I figure is the best hand on boards like this.
Guess this is read dependend but how often do villians stack off given the three clubs if they hit second pair on the turn? not being critical just never thought about playing these situations this way.

[Profish2285]

I think against a deeper opponent I raise/call 60/40 respectively.

[Check_The_Nuts]

Miyogi...

you don't have to call a crai on the flop if you don't want to. Not a good reason to not bet IMO.

[Miyogi]

[ QUOTE ]
Miyogi...

you don't have to call a crai on the flop if you don't want to. Not a good reason to not bet IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I don't want to call or fold to the CRAI from a stack this sized which is why I checked the flop. I'm giving villian a free draw with a club that he might fold by checking but I'm also protecting my hand in this instance.

[Miyogi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was in position and didn't want to have to face a CRAI. Also, knowing that I can fold if another club comes checking here might let villian catch up a little and make 2nd pair which he would stack off with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interseting , I awlays just protect what I figure is the best hand on boards like this.
Guess this is read dependend but how often do villians stack off given the three clubs if they hit second pair on the turn? not being critical just never thought about playing these situations this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most of the villians that will play a 25BB stack will at the very least call a bet with 2nd pair on the turn here and most will get AI. I like calling a CRAI on the turn here because i think villian will make that move with a lot wider range then on the flop, especially after I checked behind on the flop.

[TheArtfulDodger]

[ QUOTE ]
I think most of the villians that will play a 25BB stack will at the very least call a bet with 2nd pair on the turn here and most will get AI. I like calling a CRAI on the turn here because i think villian will make that move with a lot wider range then on the flop, especially after I checked behind on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree, and a raise to 6$ on river looks fine to me.