50NL JJ facing 4bet preflop

[Miyogi]

Villian is unknown at this point.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $49.00
BB: $92.15
UTG: $81.40
MP: $80.95
Miyogi (CO): $52.50
BTN: $56.05

Preflop: Miyogi is dealt Jhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Jhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Miyogi raises to $6.00</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $5.50, <font color="red">MP raises to $14.00,</font> <font color="red">Miyogi?</font>

Pot Size: $26.25

[Lego05]

Fold. I probably also fold QQ and AK.

[Vince.]

Against an unknown I'd fold here, I don't think you're deep enough to call and try and hit a set. If you call and the board comes all unders it might be really tough to get away from it.

[Miyogi]

Do you fold these if the BB didn't call?

[holdme]

i would call without proper implied odds out of spite for making such a retarded raise

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you fold these if the BB didn't call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...I actually didn't even notice that. If anything all that does is make it more likely for MP to reraise AK...it also makes it more likely for him to raise everything else too though. Edit: It also makes his raise more "retarded" as was pointed out above me because he should have made it bigger.

Basically at these stakes a 4bet generally means KK, AA. Exceptions would be if it's a good player he may in some situations be 4betting QQ and AK (I think even good players don't 4bet looser than this at these stakes unless a shortie is somehow involved and they're making an isolation raise. Another exception is if you have a read on the guy and he's a spewtard.

[Miyogi]

[ QUOTE ]
i would call without proper implied odds out of spite for making such a retarded raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is what I did then i folded to a 2/3 pot bet with an overpair on the flop making me feel all spewy.

[Jer672]

JJ i almost always instafold to a 4b pre. QQ and AK are tougher calls and are more villain dependent.

calling and then folding to a flop bet with no overcards is kinda spewy as you said =) (though I am definitely guilty of it sometimes =/ )

Against an unknown it`s an easy fold. Against somebody 4betting light I sometimes shove AKs, but you don`t see many people 4betting light at 50NL.

[SirFelixCat]

Grunch...

I think this is a very easy fold. You're not deep enough to set mine and even if villain is 4betting AK, you're a coin flip at best. If he is floating you, meh, we'll get his money eventually anyway, so I find a better spot.

[Capone]

Against unknown is it still at fold at 50NL?

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
Against unknown is it still at fold at 50NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is at 50NL.

[Capone]

I know I'm saying even at 50 NL you would fold JJ.

Yeah I know what your saying though against an unkown JJ is usually behind or at best a coinflip to a 4-bet.

At 50 NL people will 4bet 1010.

people hardly ever 4bet TT or JJ at 50NL. IMO, at this level, a 4 bet is usualy AA/KK, AKs, QQ in that order.

[Capone]

Yeah when 4bet your right it usually indicated a big PP or AKS.

[Lego05]

I haven't run into a TT 4bet that I can remember and I've played 200K hands at 50NL. I routinely fold QQ-, AK- to 4bets unless I have a read on the guy or it's a button/blind battle against someone I know is a good player (likely 2+2) or sometimes if it's a blind vs. blind battle.....well or of course if it's against a shortie.

[Capone]

Yeah, I mean 100bb deep, and no reads you have to assume your beat.

[iwa]

I like a fold here because his range has you dominated. Your odds are not good enough for set value. DERP!