25 NL (6 Max) - Tough Spot Multiway Deep Stacked...

[bazza22]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($9)
SB ($31.80)
BB ($37.30)
UTG ($15)
Hero ($34.70)
CO ($16.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.1</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $1.10, SB calls $1, BB calls $0.85, UTG folds.

Flop: ($4.65) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $8.4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ?

SB is a 33/1/0.5 so not overly worried by him, unless he has a monster he's folding to villains big raise.

Normally I would be scared of villains big raise and be able to get away from 1 pair hands but.. his stats are roughly 50/30/6 over 100 hands or so, does this affect my thinking? Do stack sizes matter here? Help!

[IcarusJam]

Well that 8.4 raise is enough to make me toss TPTK unless i have a solid read.

70% of the time i fold three way, 30% i shove depending on reads.

You also have the Ace of clubs, so does that effect your decision too?

[cubase]

Given the action, you are only beating AQ, AJ, a random Ax hand and a draw (and really you are behind to the good combo draws).

You are losing to AT, TT, 33, and aren't in great shape against KcQc, KcJc. You still have original bettor to act after you do whatever you are thinking about doing.

50/30/6 doesn't mean so much as his WTSD/W$SD. He looks prepared to see the river, (he just dumped in a lot of dough with you still to act; he basically ignored the fact you raised pre-flop) does he win a lot when he sees it? I've seen a lot of these loose/passive (PRE-FLOP) players become tight/aggro post-flop with insane WTSD/W$SD numbers. Pokey has a neat article breaking up pre-flop/post-flop behaviors.

You probably aren't going to see the river without all the dough going in on the turn. So the real question is, are your prepared to play for your stack against a donk bet and a raise with TPTK. If so, put the dough in now (probably behind, IMO).

I think this is an easy pitch with only $1.10 invested given the action. Sometimes you'll be folding to a draw, but most times you are WB.

With any luck, you fold, all the chips in get in, you get to see some hands and take notes.

[cestlavie]

Against 50/30/6 just shove. TPTK is $$$ against this guy. SB will fold his draw (or triple up in rare cases)

[bazza22]

Sounds like solid advice cubase, wish i had thought like that at the time! Decided to push SB folds, BB calls. He has 33 rather predictably.

Any chance of a link to the pokeya article please?

[cubase]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like solid advice cubase, wish i had thought like that at the time! Decided to push SB folds, BB calls. He has 33 rather predictably.

Any chance of a link to the pokeya article please?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post8629256 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8629256&amp;an=0&amp;page=0#Post 8629256)

See section 2. He breaks up the game into pre-flop/post flop. He points out that there are many different combinations of players (tight-pre/loose-post, loose-pre/tight-post, loose/loose, tight/tight, etc). And obviously there are many shades in between.

One problem I see on this board, IMO, is people give *a lot* of weight to the 1st 3 stats, which is too much without taking into account other indicators.

As Pokey points out, a tight player can go aggro once he plays (even overplaying his KK on Axx board). The inverse is true, someone who is seeing a lot of flops can simply fit/fold the the flop or become a TAG when he hits.

That's where the WTSD/W$SD helps out a bit. When you see someone willing to start putting a lot of dough in the pot, find out how often they are right. If you see extremely high W$SD (60+) with low WTSD(10-20), this guy is usually beating you on the river unless you have the nuts.

There are other stats that can also help you out but the key is a combination of stats.

A lot of folks see 50/2/1 and say "AUTO-SHOVE!". I think it is difficult to assess this without taking into account other factors.

Also, the entire article is worth multiple reads. It will really help you zero in on ranges. Combine this with away from the table pokerstove excercises and you begin to get a better feel for when you have good equity against your opp when the chips start to sail.