Lee Watkinson + FT Qualifier + Winner = $18,250,000 [Archive]

AngusThermopyle

07-16-2007, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker will pay out the $10,000,000 prize in equal $1,000,000 installments over a 10-year period. Players must agree to a 10-year exclusive endorsement contract with Full Tilt Poker allowing us to use their name, voice, and likeness in all future online and offline promotions. Additionally, Player agrees to play a minimum of 10 hours per week at Full Tilt Poker.com, and to attend any promotional events or tournaments that Full Tilt Poker deems appropriate. Player will be ineligible to promote any other online or offline poker-related company.

Additionally, Player must agree to only wear Full Tilt Poker gear at the Main Event whenever possible, including when playing at non-televised tables, and during any and all televised interviews, and at all future tournaments and professional poker-related appearances throughout the duration of this agreement, where allowed by the event organizer.

Full Tilt Poker retains final approval rights in regard to any other endorsements the Player may be interested in pursuing, and will not unreasonably withhold such permission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, one time payout of $50K for FT increasing to $100K for 2nd-3rd, just have to wear the FT gear during the ME.

BradleyT

07-16-2007, 04:07 PM

I wonder if it's really worth $10 Mil? Say someone like Robert Varkonyi had a deal like this back in 2002 - it's doubtful that today (5 years after his ME win) he still has enough juice to be worth $1M/year to a site.

NickyC

07-16-2007, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker will pay out the $10,000,000 prize in equal $1,000,000 installments over a 10-year period. Players must agree to a 10-year exclusive endorsement contract with Full Tilt Poker allowing us to use their name, voice, and likeness in all future online and offline promotions. Additionally, Player agrees to play a minimum of 10 hours per week at Full Tilt Poker.com, and to attend any promotional events or tournaments that Full Tilt Poker deems appropriate. Player will be ineligible to promote any other online or offline poker-related company.

Additionally, Player must agree to only wear Full Tilt Poker gear at the Main Event whenever possible, including when playing at non-televised tables, and during any and all televised interviews, and at all future tournaments and professional poker-related appearances throughout the duration of this agreement, where allowed by the event organizer.

Full Tilt Poker retains final approval rights in regard to any other endorsements the Player may be interested in pursuing, and will not unreasonably withhold such permission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, one time payout of $50K for FT increasing to $100K for 2nd-3rd, just have to wear the FT gear during the ME.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like everything else, the rich just get richer. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Zetack

07-16-2007, 04:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker will pay out the $10,000,000 prize in equal $1,000,000 installments over a 10-year period. Players must agree to a 10-year exclusive endorsement contract with Full Tilt Poker allowing us to use their name, voice, and likeness in all future online and offline promotions. Additionally, Player agrees to play a minimum of 10 hours per week at Full Tilt Poker.com, and to attend any promotional events or tournaments that Full Tilt Poker deems appropriate. Player will be ineligible to promote any other online or offline poker-related company.

Additionally, Player must agree to only wear Full Tilt Poker gear at the Main Event whenever possible, including when playing at non-televised tables, and during any and all televised interviews, and at all future tournaments and professional poker-related appearances throughout the duration of this agreement, where allowed by the event organizer.

Full Tilt Poker retains final approval rights in regard to any other endorsements the Player may be interested in pursuing, and will not unreasonably withhold such permission.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, one time payout of $50K for FT increasing to $100K for 2nd-3rd, just have to wear the FT gear during the ME.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obvously I'd take a deal like this in a heartbeat, but I would point out that its much more onerous than one would expect in a freely negotiated endorsement contract (although I do not know what's standard in the online poker endorsement world).

For instance, one would expect the number of promotional events to be spelled out, and if you aren't an online pro, ten hours a week online week-in and week out over ten years could get really burdensome. Particularly if you have some other kind of life going on. Of course, for a million a year, perhaps you don't need any kind of other life...

--Zetack

Zetack

07-16-2007, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if it's really worth $10 Mil? Say someone like Robert Varkonyi had a deal like this back in 2002 - it's doubtful that today (5 years after his ME win) he still has enough juice to be worth $1M/year to a site.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think its necessarily that they get a ten million dollar return, but they get the promotional value of advertising "qualify with us, get an extra ten million if you win!". Not to mention that the odds (before the start of the ME) that they have to pay it out are pretty low. And they may be insured for it, in any case.

--Zetack

rsigley

07-16-2007, 04:25 PM

i wonder if they pay for travel to these offline promotional events

would suck to have to fly all over the world on your dime, even if you're making 1 mil/year

Injection

07-16-2007, 04:56 PM

I read about this FTP bonus 10mil for Lee in his Pokernews profile last night, so it doesn't seem confidential. As other posters mentioned it's probably a promotional thing and will be paid out over a 20+ year period.. still makes for an interesting situation come the FT though.

ImsaKidd

07-16-2007, 04:58 PM

I think Ft needs that 10 mil so their support stops sucking.

MikeRice

07-16-2007, 05:01 PM

Gotta root for Lee based on his levelheadedness, table demeanor and his Barry G like dedication to monkey philanthropy.

RonWR

07-16-2007, 05:03 PM

FT and other sites making this type of promotion use a insurance company , they don't pay out the entire 10M themselves

Zetack

07-16-2007, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FT and other sites making this type of promotion use a insurance company , they don't pay out the entire 10M themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

That's ordinarily true when the payout is a cash prize. I wonder if its true where the payout is actually an endorsement contract including personal services.

--Zetack

Sponger.

07-16-2007, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FT and other sites making this type of promotion use a insurance company , they don't pay out the entire 10M themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand what is going on.

Zetack

07-16-2007, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i wonder if they pay for travel to these offline promotional events

would suck to have to fly all over the world on your dime, even if you're making 1 mil/year

[/ QUOTE ]

It almost certainly is not the case that he would have to travel on his own dime, although again that's usually something that would be spelled out.

But there is a huge difference between, say, 20 personal appearances of a meet & greet nature lasting 1-3 hours, and say, 52 all day appearances where you're expected to sign 600 promotional items and make an appearance in a dunking tank.

Ok, I'm joking about the dunking tank, but if Full-Tilt wants to weasel out of the contract, they could make the requirements pretty unpalattable. Not that they necessarily will of course, its just pretty broad language they have to work with. Somebody else would have to comment on whether there's an implied covenant of reasonableness and where the line on reasonableness might fall.

I would presume that a full contract would be signed and all of these things fully spelled out, by the by. I also expect that if there is a qualifying winner that he won't have a lot of bargaining power on the terms, other than, perhaps, signing up with poker stars for some much smaller amount of money.

adanthar

07-16-2007, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if it's really worth $10 Mil? Say someone like Robert Varkonyi had a deal like this back in 2002 - it's doubtful that today (5 years after his ME win) he still has enough juice to be worth $1M/year to a site.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is actually a tricky question that I thought about a little before entering via FTP, since I have certain stock holdings that might be at issue here.

someone like Varkonyi would be very well served by a 10 year deal because he's simply not worth a million a year in endorsements. someone like Phil Ivey, pretending he won, might wind up losing a ton of money on the deal - he is very likely worth > 1m/year if he is properly marketed. OTOH, Moneymaker/Raymer/Hachem definitely aren't getting a million a year from outside deals, either (although in Greg's case, never finishing his book has something to do with that /images/graemlins/frown.gif )

so for the vast majority of people, the contract is far more than they'd earn any other way. for a few pros, this might be a bad deal. as for the site itself, the offers are essentially frontloaded - having that year's winner (unless he's Jamie Gold) is likely worth a ton in exposure and might pay for the cost of a 10 year annuity in year 1. everything after that is gravy.

also, if rainkhan wins, stars will go bananas over him.

Kneel B4 Zod

07-16-2007, 05:30 PM

I'm not actually sure Watkinson is worth $1mm to Tilt. they already have a huge stable of famous pro's...adding 1 more doesn't have the incremental value that adding Watkinson to a medium sized room would have.

I dunno, maybe he's worth $1mm to Tilt, but worth more to others, and with the state of online poker in the US, a middle aged white guy from America may have trouble getting a sponsorship from some places.

so if he wins, it's probably a win/win.

samsdmf

07-16-2007, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i wonder if they pay for travel to these offline promotional events

would suck to have to fly all over the world on your dime, even if you're making 1 mil/year

[/ QUOTE ]

It almost certainly is not the case that he would have to travel on his own dime, although again that's usually something that would be spelled out.

But there is a huge difference between, say, 20 personal appearances of a meet & greet nature lasting 1-3 hours, and say, 52 all day appearances where you're expected to sign 600 promotional items and make an appearance in a dunking tank.

Ok, I'm joking about the dunking tank, but if Full-Tilt wants to weasel out of the contract, they could make the requirements pretty unpalattable. Not that they necessarily will of course, its just pretty broad language they have to work with. Somebody else would have to comment on whether there's an implied covenant of reasonableness and where the line on reasonableness might fall.

I would presume that a full contract would be signed and all of these things fully spelled out, by the by. I also expect that if there is a qualifying winner that he won't have a lot of bargaining power on the terms, other than, perhaps, signing up with poker stars for some much smaller amount of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure the conditions are on the site and were posted in BBV a month or so back (good2cu started the thread I think)

SenatorKevin

07-16-2007, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I just heard from a media source that Lee Watkinson is a Full Tilt Poker Qualifier and is playing for an extra $10,000,000 is he wins tomorrow.

Matt Savage

[/ QUOTE ]

Full Tilt also pays you extra just for making the final table as a qualifer. I saw the bonus schedule somewhere.. maybe someone has already posted it.

Maple Leafs

07-16-2007, 05:41 PM

There's nothing binding here for FTP qualifiers, is there? If Watkinson wins he can always negotiate something else on his own if he chooses, or is he tied into this automatically once he qualifies through FTP?

BigAlK

07-16-2007, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not actually sure Watkinson is worth $1mm to Tilt. they already have a huge stable of famous pro's...adding 1 more doesn't have the incremental value that adding Watkinson to a medium sized room would have.

[/ QUOTE ]

The interesting thing here is that Watkinson is already part of FT's stable of "famous" pros (along with such notables as Shannon Elizabeth, Ali Nejad, and Marco Traniello). They divide them into 3 tiers ("Team Full Tilt"/"The Hendon Mob", "Full Tilt Pros", and "Friends of Full Tilt"). Watkinson is in the 2nd tier, maybe this would move him up into the 1st tier, don't know.

El Diablo

07-16-2007, 05:54 PM

ad,

"OTOH, Moneymaker/Raymer/Hachem definitely aren't getting a million a year from outside deals"

Are you sure about that?

ericicecream

07-16-2007, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's a pretty big EV. We were discussing last night whether there would be any way to chop that.

[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK its a sponsorship fee and not a lump sum payment. In return for the 10 mil he would have to do commercials, print ads, etc. for the next few years.

[/ QUOTE ]

For 10m I doubt he'll mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that he can't represent other online casinos who might bid more than 1 million/year for 10 years.

I'll bet that if someone else wins, they will get sponsorship worth in the range of 10 million/ten years or better.

murph0110

07-16-2007, 06:09 PM

the only pro who has ever been worth their sponsorship weight is moneymaker... plain and simple... there is no pro/player/winner who would ever be worth 1 million today..

regardless, lee, along with david singer, were the only two qualifiers online through full tilt ass with the site. if lee wins, he gets 1 million a year, for 10 years...

he would have to do commercials, play a set number of events every year, other promotional, cannot promote other sites, etc...

poker stars was 1 million for the winner with no type of contract attached (i think)...

GrindingIt

07-16-2007, 06:13 PM

Do you think there's any chance FT is in business 40 years? Doubt it. Take a million instead.

edit, heard earlier 250k/yr, maybe he'll get a year or two at 1mil unless he's american then gl

texman

07-16-2007, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Player agrees to play a minimum of 10 hours per week at Full Tilt Poker.com, and to attend any promotional events or tournaments that Full Tilt Poker deems appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]
basically you are their "boy" for each year. so does that mean you have to play wsop events straight through for 6 weeks? or go to the bulgarian full tilt european open?

12ressiMorP

07-16-2007, 06:26 PM

does this mean checks from FTP will take even longer now?

Cactus Jack

07-16-2007, 06:27 PM

For Lee Watkinson, this might be a great deal. For Mike Matusow or Daniel or someone with a high-rev motor, this might not be.

beaver

07-16-2007, 06:30 PM

can't wait to see espn do another piece on lee's monkey antics

go lee! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

52s

07-16-2007, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Watkinson is in the 2nd tier, maybe this would move him up into the 1st tier, don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]

If FTP stays with the pattern they've used the past couple years, he would seem to be a lock to be moved up to Team Full Tilt based on the final table appearance alone, which is how Matusow and Cunningham got moved up to the "top tier".

OTOH, he doesn't have the... "name status", I guess you can call it, of those two, so it's not as automatic as the recent pattern suggests.

The one big thing FTP has been missing in the past 4 years is having the current WSOP ME Champion represent the site - if Watkinson or anybody else at the final table that sells their soul to FTP were to win it all, I presume they'd get a one-way ticket into "Team Full Tilt" and will be pimped out everywhere for all they're worth.

And let's be honest, out of all the pictures I've seen of the players left, I get the feeling the one that's still wearing FTP gear that FTP would want to win it all is Alex Kravchenko, so they can pimp him hard to the Eastern Bloc and Mother Russia at the Moscow Millions and beyond.

On that note, I wonder why Carlos Mortenson is still a "Full Tilt Pro" having won the WPT Championship and all, and hasn't been moved up.

FyteOn

07-16-2007, 06:33 PM

You guys are also missing the point about the upfront benefit. It's not just about is the pro "worth it". They got new customers without the person winning. They have been advertising the extra $10m in magazines all year. So they've made money there. And yes, they use an insurance company to underwrite the contest - just like every hole in one contest at your company's golf outing. As for the appearances, it's all been spelled out in the contract they signed. You have to X amount of appearances/commercials, etc for X amount of years. They're not going to make it onerous. They're not shelling out $10m hoping to get $10m in revenue. The underwriting was done based on the formula of how many players from FTP in the ME and the odds one random person would win + profit for the underwriting company. FTP makes money on this deal either way.

prophet73

07-16-2007, 06:44 PM

I'm totally guessing, but I've got to think that to be on "Team Full Tilt" you need to own some sort of piece of the company as an investor. I think to be a FTP "Pro" is more like an endorsement/prop player thing for the site.

That's why a player like Carlos (WSOP/WPT Champ) isn't on the Team, but rather just a Pro. He doesn't necessarily own a part of FTP.

This explains why some of the players are on Team Full Tilt because they definitely aren't on the team because of their results.

Just my guess though.

52s

07-16-2007, 06:50 PM

The original "Team Full Tilt"ers like Clonie, Phil Gordon, Andy Bloch - yeah, because they invested in.

But since that original group they've added 3 people to "Team Full Tilt" - Matusow after he WSOP final tabled, Cunningham after he WSOP final tabled, and Gus Hansen with a sponsership contract.

Gus I presume (and am very likely completely wrong on) got a piece of the pie having signed a contract straight onto the team, the other two... ?

Rottersod

07-16-2007, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FT and other sites making this type of promotion use a insurance company , they don't pay out the entire 10M themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand what is going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Adding my 2c: If it was covered by an insurance policy it would be because the payout is only if someone wins the ME. Underwriters could easily calculate the odds of that and base a premium on this.

edit: Looks like FyteOn said this before I did.

SenatorKevin

07-16-2007, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FT and other sites making this type of promotion use a insurance company , they don't pay out the entire 10M themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand what is going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Adding my 2c: If it was covered by an insurance policy it would be because the payout is only if someone wins the ME. Underwriters could easily calculate the odds of that and base a premium on this.

edit: Looks like FyteOn said this before I did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, just like how they have those banners during the All-Star game that say "Hit it here and someone wins a million bucks from 21st century". Most likely, the money is really coming from Llyods of London.

SenatorKevin

07-16-2007, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The original "Team Full Tilt"ers like Clonie, Phil Gordon, Andy Bloch - yeah, because they invested in.

But since that original group they've added 3 people to "Team Full Tilt" - Matusow after he WSOP final tabled, Cunningham after he WSOP final tabled, and Gus Hansen with a sponsership contract.

Gus I presume (and am very likely completely wrong on) got a piece of the pie having signed a contract straight onto the team, the other two... ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did Clonie really have a bankroll to "invest" in FTP a few years ago? I'm skeptical of her finances.

adanthar

07-16-2007, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ad,

"OTOH, Moneymaker/Raymer/Hachem definitely aren't getting a million a year from outside deals"

Are you sure about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't count their Stars deals? Yeah. I mean, has anyone seen any of their names on anything non-Stars related?

prophet73

07-16-2007, 07:19 PM

It's very possible Hansen, Matusow, and Cunningham bought into the company too, especially after significant wins.

Maybe Carlos chose not to?

JennFox

07-16-2007, 07:33 PM

his fulltilt page has mistake on it.. they should fix it before he wins the main event - go lee go!

EMc

07-16-2007, 08:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ad,

"OTOH, Moneymaker/Raymer/Hachem definitely aren't getting a million a year from outside deals"

Are you sure about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't count their Stars deals? Yeah. I mean, has anyone seen any of their names on anything non-Stars related?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hachem on the WSOP video game

beset

07-16-2007, 11:36 PM

If the deal becomes -EV he can just breach the contract thanks to the civil war. Win/Win for Lee and an insurance claim for FTP. One of FTPs better PR moves

ebepse

07-16-2007, 11:52 PM

1 $8,250,000

2 $4,840,981

watkinson heads up vs other person. watkinson goes all in and has other person covered by 2bbs. watkinson loses. other person tells watkinson i will keep folding and let you win if you give me 5.2m and the bracelet. they do that. other person ends up getting 10m and the bracelet. watkinson gets 3m + 10m sponsorship deal

Howard Treesong

07-16-2007, 11:57 PM

Why doesn't this create a massive bribing bag that materially increases the chances of collusion?

I don't know Lee and have no reason to think that he is anything but a sterling character. But a $10MM asymmetrical payout is a huge incentive for chip-dumping. Lee could say to another player "ship me your chips and I'll pay you $2.5MM if I win the event." Or, he could make a deal where other players ship him chips in return for a percentage of his action including the FTP bonus. Isn't that waaaaay pos-EV for both parties?

El Diablo

07-17-2007, 01:03 AM

ad,

"If you don't count their Stars deals?"

Huh? The whole point of whether or not this FT thing is a good deal for the player is that it takes the place of any other poker site endorsement deal they would make. If Stars pays ME winner a deal worth > $1m 10yr annuity, then this would be a bad deal for the winner to take.

adanthar

07-17-2007, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ad,

"If you don't count their Stars deals?"

Huh? The whole point of whether or not this FT thing is a good deal for the player is that it takes the place of any other poker site endorsement deal they would make. If Stars pays ME winner a deal worth > $1m 10yr annuity, then this would be a bad deal for the winner to take.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that I'm not sure you can qualify through FTP [accepting their offer] and then turn around and sign a deal with Stars. It's one of those things I wouldn't want to be hauled into court on. (Not that it matters - the Stars deal is significantly worse, anyway.)

The no outside endorsements or investments clause is the one that's more important for a few, though...I don't see aba or greenplastic being too happy to have to get rid of their Cardrunners %'s.

shaniac

07-17-2007, 02:46 AM

Whatever. Lee's already a FTP pro, so he's already happy to work for them for less tham 1M/year and I I'm not sure he's got the kind of personality that would make him worth more than 1m/year under most circumstances. Is he getting the bonus only because he won the satellite or because he's wearing the FTP gear, anyway? If it's the latter, what kind of bonus would Lee have gotten if he hadn't satelited in and then won? Also, since we are basically pulling numbers and assumptions out of our ass, I'd like to guess that a victory for Scotty Ngyuen would have been worth much, much more than 1M/yr for many, many years.

betgo

07-17-2007, 03:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ad,

"If you don't count their Stars deals?"

Huh? The whole point of whether or not this FT thing is a good deal for the player is that it takes the place of any other poker site endorsement deal they would make. If Stars pays ME winner a deal worth > $1m 10yr annuity, then this would be a bad deal for the winner to take.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that I'm not sure you can qualify through FTP [accepting their offer] and then turn around and sign a deal with Stars. It's one of those things I wouldn't want to be hauled into court on. (Not that it matters - the Stars deal is significantly worse, anyway.)

The no outside endorsements or investments clause is the one that's more important for a few, though...I don't see aba or greenplastic being too happy to have to get rid of their Cardrunners %'s.

[/ QUOTE ]
I won 4 seats in Stars and 1 seat on FT, so I don't know how the agreement would have effected me if I won.

I am not sure what courts FT could try to enforce their agreement in, certainly not US courts.

I am not sure whether one can get as good an endorsement contract on the open market as last year before the law was passed.

Crane

07-17-2007, 03:42 AM

Yes, this is a BIG boom for fulltilt.NET

fulltilt.NET is really going to be raking in the publicity on this one.

Lee Watkinson is going to be a fine representative for fulltilt.NET

And all of those "pros" you saw walking around with their fulltilt.NET logos and hats...makes you wonder if any of them have ever played one single hand on fulltilt.NET or pokerstars.NET or ultimatebet.NET

What disappoints me most of all is that Barry Greenstein sold out to pokerstars.NET

He said he'd never support an Internet site.

He was my hero until he did that.

fatshaft

07-17-2007, 09:00 AM

Isn't Kalmar a Full Tilt qualifier too?

CrushinFelt

07-17-2007, 09:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever. Lee's already a FTP pro, so he's already happy to work for them for less tham 1M/year and I I'm not sure he's got the kind of personality that would make him worth more than 1m/year under most circumstances. Is he getting the bonus only because he won the satellite or because he's wearing the FTP gear, anyway? If it's the latter, what kind of bonus would Lee have gotten if he hadn't satelited in and then won? Also, since we are basically pulling numbers and assumptions out of our ass, I'd like to guess that a victory for Scotty Ngyuen would have been worth much, much more than 1M/yr for many, many years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pffft. Lee would be gold for commercials.

1) Put monkeys in poker commercials
2) ????
3) Profit!

drewjustdrew

07-17-2007, 09:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see aba or greenplastic being too happy to have to get rid of their Cardrunners %'s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt the few that this affects would try to qualify under these stipulations. If they did, thank god for them they didn't pull it off. Boy would that suck. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

barryg1

07-17-2007, 03:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What disappoints me most of all is that Barry Greenstein sold out to pokerstars.NET

He said he'd never support an Internet site.

He was my hero until he did that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I held out as long as I could afford to. Poker has changed from when I could regularly play in lucrative side games. (If I was 25 years old with no family, I could camp out at a casino or on the Internet, playing in good situations, but I have too many responsibilities to do that.) Tournament poker has absorbed money that used to go to the side game players, and it occupies a lot of my playing time.

I realized that I wasn't making enough money to support my family and continue giving money away.

I went with PokerStars because they are letting me be low key and they allow me to make significant changes in the software. (We would have had more changes and bigger games, if the UIGEA didn't happen.)

Barry

shaniac

07-17-2007, 03:51 PM

Barry,

Fwiw, I think it's respectable both that you tried/preferred to hold out and that you also able to recognize the necessity of income and supporting your family. I really don't think you can blame a gambler for "selling out" by trying to secure regular income through endorsements, even though players like Barry would probably prefer to not wear someone's logo.

Fwiw, John Hanson is rumored to have turned down SERIOUS one-time endorsement money that FTP offered him for logowear at the HORSE final table, being probably the first poker player I'm aware of who was given the opportunity to "sell out" for a ridiculous figure and little commitment, but held true to his independent ethic.