My biggest routine mistake...help guys!

[Damani311]

So at what point do you figure your top pair is no good? When the jack hits on the turn? I'm just confused...just cuz he minraises i should release my AQ preflop or after i flop my ace? or should i just call till the turn and then dump knowing the only thing i can beat (in this case is A-10)...your thoughts guys, I always get screwed by AK here....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Button ($11.90)
SB ($16.80)
BB ($28.40)
UTG ($32.35)
UTG+1 ($24.65)
MP1 ($21.45)
MP2 ($52.55)
MP3 ($27.25)
Hero ($22.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.75</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.75) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1</font>, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($4.75) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3.

River: ($10.75) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $6.25</font>, Hero calls $6.25.

Final Pot: $23.25

[hennnerz]

Raise flop. If called bet turn, then slow down.

[evilhamit]

yeah raise flop should definitely help, if he calls and bets turn folding seems good

[tomonbass]

I dont like calling raises or reraises with Broadways PF against unknowns or against tight PF players.. In most cases you put yourself in tricky spots which are really tough

Standard opponents are only reraising with AA,KK,QQ,AK occassionally JJ,1010

Looking at that range your AQ doesnt look to good now does it at best your in a coin flip against JJ,1010

So unless youve got reads that players are raising/reraising light its normally best to throw those Broadway cards away to pf action...

[monkover]

this belongs in the fullring forum

[hennnerz]

Nah I disagree there, notice how its a minraise. I feel at this level this is done with a wide range. And the flop means AQ dominates most hands.

[tomonbass]

miniraise.... DING DING DING...

Doesnt that ring alarm bells unless you have reads a reraise of any kind especially miniraises often mean Big Hands...

We are talking about an unknown here unless you have a read you can not assume that your opponents range is huge...

When you first encounter an opponent you have to presume that they are rational players unless you see otherwise...

You cant just presume there a donk just because they play at low limits or just because its a miniraise...

Most miniraises preflop or postflop Ive seen have = monster

[paulnic]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise flop. If called bet turn, then slow down.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Capone]

Bring the flop to $4.

[daveT]

the miniraise came from what could be a reaction to what looks like a blind steal.

A raise would definitely be helpful. It would then be an easy fold to a shove.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
Most miniraises preflop or postflop Ive seen have = monster

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. I have made the mistake several times of not taking the min-reraise seriously enough, and it almost always turns out to be AA, KK, or AK.

You have to ask yourself why they are min-reraising vs. just calling or re-raising more. Usually it's because they have a big hand. With more of a marginal hand they would just call, and with a hand where they want to discourage action, they would re-raise more. Min-reraising is to invite action and to build a bigger pot most often.

[Reup Gang]

[ QUOTE ]
miniraise.... DING DING DING...

Doesnt that ring alarm bells unless you have reads a reraise of any kind especially miniraises often mean Big Hands...

We are talking about an unknown here unless you have a read you can not assume that your opponents range is huge...

When you first encounter an opponent you have to presume that they are rational players unless you see otherwise...

You cant just presume there a donk just because they play at low limits or just because its a miniraise...

Most miniraises preflop or postflop Ive seen have = monster

[/ QUOTE ]

not true, a ton of minraises = really weak hands.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
miniraise.... DING DING DING...

Doesnt that ring alarm bells unless you have reads a reraise of any kind especially miniraises often mean Big Hands...

We are talking about an unknown here unless you have a read you can not assume that your opponents range is huge...

When you first encounter an opponent you have to presume that they are rational players unless you see otherwise...

You cant just presume there a donk just because they play at low limits or just because its a miniraise...

Most miniraises preflop or postflop Ive seen have = monster

[/ QUOTE ]

not true, a ton of minraises = really weak hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's important to distinguish initial minraises vs. minREraises. Minraises are often times weak. I have found minREraises to be completely different.

[Kasane]

I actually don't hate this line. It keeps the pot in control and doesn't let weaker hands fold. There's not that much of a chance he's on a draw. A raise (any real raise, not a "3 times his bet raise") will about 1/2-3/4 as much for hero as showing it down -- and cost his villain much less if he's got 2 outs.

Villain's bets are small and if villain is unknown -- well, we don't know what that means. Monster or weakness. Usually the latter, because if villain is small betting to induce a raise, they usually bomb the turn (oh noes! flush draw!). Turn is bet smallish, which is fine. Let him keep betting. If you raise, QQ-KK fold and they have almost no outs. River is only real decision, and I think it's a call too. It's marginal, but I think all things considered it's a positive one. I usually need a read to go one way or another, but I usually default to see what a players got when I think something close to 0EV or even slightly neg because it'll pay off for me later.

It's FR, though, I'm only thinking in 6max terms.

In my opinion, we don't see that many min rr's from AK. QQ-AA yeah (keep 'em in philosophy) and tester garbage, but even donks usually know AK is all about getting 'em to fold. I've been showing down more against the min-rr lately (at 6max) and I'm shocked by how often it isn't the monster hand.

[hennnerz]

&lt;--------- Agreeing to disagree here.

[Grifter]

I think you played the hand fine. You might be able to fold on the river, but maybe not. I don't agree with the raise the flop line, as it wins you the least when you are ahead. I mean, either he has a monster (AA, AK, Other Set) or you have him dominated (KK, QQ, random.) I guess the turn becomes iffy because one of the hands you beat (JJ) just went ahead. If you are ahead, raising just allows him to dump it early. I really wouldn't be too bothered by this hand. It would be different if the betting went pot-pot-pot, as I don't see that too often as a bluff, but for the price given, I would call down as well.

[pr0crast]

I disagree with flop raise. "Raising the flop for info" just seems kind of dumb to me. Put him on a range NOW, and play the rest of the hand accordingly. Let's say you do raise though. Now he can either fold, call, or reraise. What does each of these tell you?

If he folds, then he doesn't have top pair, doesn't have flush draw, and probably has air or a weak pair. You would have been better off inducing bluffs on every street.

If he calls, I don't think you have any more info than you had before, and you now are playing a bloated pot with TPGK (::high five::).

If he 3bets, you're either toast or he's on a draw. Is this what you are looking for? Him to raise so you have an excuse to fold? Meh, seems kind of lame to me.

Personally I like the way you played the hand up until the river, which seems like a fold to me. AT does not seem realistic for him to hold here.

[Capone]

This isnt limit raising the flop for info has much less value

[Waingro]

I like how you played it up untill the river. I see no value in raising the flop. Flop + turn I could see him have QQ/KK here, but once he bets the river I think you are toast a lot without a read. So call flop + turn, fold river?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

If you raise the flop here you're either folding out whatever crazy hand they decided to min-3bet with, or (and this is much more likely) you are giving money to AA and AK and folding KK